Single Player bugs and crashes v38 plus (SVN) - After the 20th of February 2018

[olduser]

That's how it's supposed to be, in addition: if you move from a road to a trail, you move to that plot as if it's on a trail, the weakest route between two plot always trumps the stronger one.
This is how it was in vanilla BtS, and this is how it has always been in C2C too until some change in the latest month.

Spoiler Could it be this change? :

View attachment 491066

I reverted that change in the svn try it please and report if it works for you as well.

 

[Toffer90]

New problem with Education in Preh Era. Building every building that gives +Education, having 4 and soon 6 Story tellers all on Teaching can not keep Education from continuing to have a neg value per turn. New game started last night with 9979 SVN. Recent changes to Education in Preh era seem to be too much. Screenshot below was before adding 2 more Story tellers to build list.

Agreed, by the end of the prehistoric (deity diff.) I needed to have about 6 story tellers with the first promo and the teaching build up to get my capital (10 pop) barely into the positive education range. I'll look into tweaking it a bit.

 

[Noriad2]

Agreed, by the end of the prehistoric (deity diff.) I needed to have about 6 story tellers with the first promo and the teaching build up to get my capital (10 pop) barely into the positive education range. I'll look into tweaking it a bit.

Lol when I play deity or nightmare I mostly skip education in the prehistoric given that the low malus does not justify the high investments (hammers + unit upkeep) into it. Out of roleplay or OCD you can try to keep education above zero, but from a strategic point of view it is suboptimal play. During Ancient and Classic you get more +edu buildings, en more effective teacher units, while the malus for very low education increases. So that is when I start giving attention to it.

P.S. this is not a request for higher maluses. I'm fine with the current situation.

 

[raxo2222]

Lol when I play deity or nightmare I mostly skip education in the prehistoric given that the low malus does not justify the high investments (production + unit upkeep) into it. Out of roleplay or OCD you can try to keep education above zero, but from a strategic point of view it is suboptimal play. During Ancient and Classic you get more +edu buildings, en more effective units, while the malus for very low education increases. So that is when I start giving attention to it.

Hmmmm that is opposite approach to Joseph's - he doesn't want to have negative education at all even in prehistoric era.
Or at least not below -10 (prehistoric penalty).

Do you plop one more anticrime/antidisease unit?
Or just pretend penalty is not here during first era?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Very bad design intent. If my Rogue automatically pauses the rest of the turn after attacking a worker, deselects and my focus moves to another unit, it gives the impression that the unit is out of movement points even though it isn't.
It wouldn't surprise me if the bug that deselects a stack of units after an attack is somehow related.

This behavior has been going on with units for a long long time. Many times during "battles" I will have to go back to the "battle" because the game will move you on to the next unit It thinks should be attended to. Irritating yes, just been dealing with it for a long time now. So not a recent thing.

 

[Noriad2]

Hmmmm that is opposite approach to Joseph's - he doesn't want to have negative education at all even in prehistoric era.
Or at least not below -10 (prehistoric penalty).

Do you plop one more anticrime/antidisease unit?
Or just pretend penalty is not here during first era?

That is Joseph's choice. You can also choose to ignore it, eat the penalties, and use your hammers for something else. Just weigh costs and benefits against each other.

Best anticrime/edu/antidisease button is the stop city growth button (lower right in the city screen). I stop growth at pop 6, 13 and 25 because that is when new buildings become available, and I only unstop city growth when I can spare the resources needed to be up-to-date with the necessary infrastructure.

I pay a bit more attention to crime - usually start suppressing it somewhere in the late prehistoric, as crime is hard to get back under control if you let it fester for too long.

 

[raxo2222]

That is Joseph's choice. You can also choose to ignore it, eat the penalties, and use your hammers for something else. Just weigh costs and benefits against each other.

Best anticrime/edu/antidisease button is the stop city growth button (lower right in the city screen. I stop growth at pop 6, 13 and 25 because that is when new buildings become available, and I only unstop city growth when I can spare the resources needed to be up-to-date with the necessary infrastructure.

I pay a bit more attention to crime - usually start suppressing it somewhere in the late prehistoric, as crime is hard to get back under control if you let it fester for too long.

I know its his choice, I noticed how you two play it differently.
He also doesn't want to crime to go above 0.
What else you do on Nightmare, that isn't that needed on lower handicaps?
I don't stop city growth, I focus on production though.

 

[JosEPh_II]

That is Joseph's choice. You can also choose to ignore it, eat the penalties, and use your hammers for something else. Just weigh costs and benefits against each other.

Best anticrime/edu/antidisease button is the stop city growth button (lower right in the city screen). I stop growth at pop 6, 13 and 25 because that is when new buildings become available, and I only unstop city growth when I can spare the resources needed to be up-to-date with the necessary infrastructure.

I pay a bit more attention to crime - usually start suppressing it somewhere in the late prehistoric, as crime is hard to get back under control if you let it fester for too long.

Yes it is my choice. I don't like starting the Ancient era several hundred points negative in Education. New levels kick in there too. So keeping it less than -100 is my bottom threshold. But Hey! Today's change is.... fill in the ______ !??

EDIT: I will eventually adapt.......roll with the punches........or not.

 

[Thunderbrd]

That change could explain some odd behavior @Thunderbrd why did you make this change?

It's necessary to ensure that the move is valid and doesn't get rejected during the course of setXY to keep some other potential bugs from taking place.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Also, when I attack a worker with my Rogue, the Rogue gets deselected afterwards, even though I still have movement points left.

It's a matter of deselection after attack that I'm having a hard time making harmonize with stack attack or not stack attack options.

 

[Thunderbrd]

If it is Toffer's and T-brd' consensus that the player should sink in Education during Preh Era then this a report of the result. It will then be up to them to do anything or nothing.

@Toffer - education was balanced previously so this sort of immediate collapse wouldn't take place. Just so I know, did you change the amount per population on the handicap, as some are suggesting, or did you change the educational value on a building, like the palace? Or did you do nothing and something else is awry?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Very bad design intent. If my Rogue automatically pauses the rest of the turn after attacking a worker, deselects and my focus moves to another unit, it gives the impression that the unit is out of movement points even though it isn't.
It wouldn't surprise me if the bug that deselects a stack of units after an attack is somehow related.

It's not related - it's the same exact thing. If I don't deselect the stack after an attack, it breaks stack attack. If I do deselect the stack after an attack, this happens. If I conditionally deselect the stack after an attack, on non-stack attack your stack moves in and even though you may not have any movement left, you're stuck on that stack selected. I need another option but I'm not sure what controls to call.

 

[olduser]

It's necessary to ensure that the move is valid and doesn't get rejected during the course of setXY to keep some other potential bugs from taking place.

But with that change in place the movement costs are calculated as if a unit would move from the target plot on to the target plot.

 

[Thunderbrd]

But with that change in place the movement costs are calculated as if a unit would move from the target plot on to the target plot.

OK, so the move needs to take place before the move cost charges or you have major problems with the nested movement calls that are generated by ambushes and stack attack processes. I get what you're saying so to solve, it should be easier to correct the from/to plots for proper calculation by storing the from plot first and sending it as a variable through the move cost charging function to ensure we use the correct origin plot as opposed to the one that the unit is standing on.

 

[Toffer90]

@Toffer - education was balanced previously so this sort of immediate collapse wouldn't take place. Just so I know, did you change the amount per population on the handicap, as some are suggesting, or did you change the educational value on a building, like the palace? Or did you do nothing and something else is awry?

I did not change it on nightmare difficulty, but on deity I changed it so that it is two steps below nightmare, so I changed it from -4 to -5 per population. I thought it was too low on the other settings as there was 4 steps up to nightmare before I changed difficulty factors. I could simply revert that change but then I should instead reduce the education penalty on nightmare as that is the one that was too high all along.

 

[raxo2222]

I did not change it on nightmare difficulty, but on deity I changed it so that it is two steps below nightmare, so I changed it from -4 to -5 per population. I thought it was too low on the other settings as there was 4 steps up to nightmare before I changed difficulty factors. I could simply revert that change but then I should instead reduce the education penalty on nightmare as that is the one that was too high all along.

Don't forget to add crime modifier to settler - it was missing

 

[Thunderbrd]

I did not change it on nightmare difficulty, but on deity I changed it so that it is two steps below nightmare, so I changed it from -4 to -5 per population. I thought it was too low on the other settings as there was 4 steps up to nightmare before I changed difficulty factors. I could simply revert that change but then I should instead reduce the education penalty on nightmare as that is the one that was too high all along.

Sounds like you have a solid diagnosis then. At the moment, education does not conform to the same pattern as crime/disease and shouldn't or it'll cause balance issues. We might be able to fix that up later but it's going to take some more units to do it (later game stuff) and some larger retweaking of values. Education points are a bit stronger in value for each than crime pts.

 

[Toffer90]

Sounds like you have a solid diagnosis then. At the moment, education does not conform to the same pattern as crime/disease and shouldn't or it'll cause balance issues. We might be able to fix that up later but it's going to take some more units to do it (later game stuff) and some larger retweaking of values. Education points are a bit stronger in value for each than crime pts.

Yeah, I decided to change it so that education follows a 1/3 increment step scheme instead of the 1/2 that crime follows.

Don't forget to add crime modifier to settler - it was missing

No, it is not missing.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Observation, converting subdued fowl to flocks has lost the +1 it used to give. Now it only gives +1 . This was done sometime after v38 release.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Observation, converting subdued fowl to flocks has lost the +1 it used to give. Now it only gives +1 . This was done sometime after v38 release.

Ewww... fowl move DH! We also lost hammers from piers at some point... frown.