Single Player bugs and crashes v38 plus (SVN) - After the 20th of February 2018

[DC0]

1)It's not a punishment - it's a counterbalance, the one negative thing about it.
3)I WOULD like to eventually see the buttons differ so that it's a little more obvious by button graphic which unit is being selected since I usually select faster than the hover information comes up.

Wait a second here.
Every neanderthal unit costs twice as much as it's homo sapiens sapiens counterpart. And it has only +1 . No other bonuses. During this period of game unit support and supply costs are not a problem usually. Therefore 2x4 units are better than 1x5 unit of same type. 2x4 axeman will beat 1x5 axeman nearly in all circumstances.
Among other benefits of neanderthal culture: +1 and +1. Plus neanderthal caves are better than regular cave dwelling.
But both cost ENORMOUS amount of . Overall, isn't it counterbalanced enough already?

My experience of gameplay tells me that normally it is easy to steamroll barbarians and neanderthal cities with an army of 4 neanderthal obsidian axeman and 2 neanderthal obsidian swordman properly promoted with a Great General (or Commander).
But NPC civs are able to punch you back. They normally have much better cities (if walls are present - MUCH harder) and many more defending units.

I would certainly like to see the option you've specified in clause 3).

 

[Thunderbrd]

Therefore 2x4 units are better than 1x5 unit of same type. 2x4 axeman will beat 1x5 axeman nearly in all circumstances.

I find that terribly flawed consideration. I'll take 1 5 strength unit over 2 4 strength units any day of the week because they are far more likely to survive in the wild. Once one of the 4 strength units goes down to something the 5 strength unit would've beat, the second 4 strength unit is probably going to die soon thereafter. The 5 strength then just has to heal and continue and win the next battle that would have taken down the 4 strength unit.

My experience of gameplay tells me that normally it is easy to steamroll barbarians and neanderthal cities with an army of 4 neanderthal obsidian axeman and 2 neanderthal obsidian swordman properly promoted with a Great General (or Commander).

Not really helping your case on this. Very true though.

I would certainly like to see the option you've specified in clause 3).

Not much work being done on things right now.

 

[DC0]

I find that terribly flawed consideration. I'll take 1 5 strength unit over 2 4 strength units any day of the week because they are far more likely to survive in the wild. Once one of the 4 strength units goes down to something the 5 strength unit would've beat, the second 4 strength unit is probably going to die soon thereafter. The 5 strength then just has to heal and continue and win the next battle that would have taken down the 4 strength unit.

If 2 weaker units are going separately - you are correct. But good general concentrates his forces.

 

[strategyonly]

get this error message : see pic

also this one:

CvCityAI.cpp
Line: 4544
Expression: false

 

[raxo2222]

get this error message : see pic

also this one:

CvCityAI.cpp
Line: 4544
Expression: false

Upload save

 

[strategyonly]

havent even made it to Ancient yet: and i have had like four stalls/

 

[Thunderbrd]

get this error message : see pic

also this one:

CvCityAI.cpp
Line: 4544
Expression: false

Why r u running a debug dll? That assert is harmless.

 

[strategyonly]

Why r u running a debug dll? That assert is harmless.

i did for the end one but not the one in the pic .. .

 

[strategyonly]

dont know if this is anything or not, but i have already moved on , so no biggy. .

EDIT: Now have 2 of these . .

EDIT EDIT: Now 3 mini's CTD, but non-repeatable . .

 

[Morlark]

Can I get some clarification on the intended functionality of the infiltrate mission?

The player guide says:

The infiltration mission is much more effective and they can perform trade missions as they deal on the black market. When they perform missions like these, they must make investigation checks to avoid getting caught and made 'wanted'.

I had a thief, and told it to infiltrate an enemy city. The infiltration failed, and notification was displayed that my unit "is on the run from the local law".

However, instead of simply getting the 'wanted' promotion, the unit was killed. Is that intended?

 

[Necratoid]

Now its time for a bug report on 38.5. Like Oprahbees.gif level bugs for me. I haven't updated before this in like a year so I'm paying attention to the differences. Played at noble.

-At level 11 there is a promotion that gives a (quality up) effect granting more base stats for the unit. It resets the units xp to 0. From 140 to zero.
-A venue of vulture is a bird and get terrain defensive bonuses.
-Despite being a stack unit composed of multiple animals fuse together, killing fused unit grants only the resources of killing a single unit stack. This means killing one of the invisible 9 stacks of brown bears in the early stone age gives you the same hammers and food as killing a single brown bear. This is stupid... like buffalo jumps effects of herd populations level stupid. I killed off a Bearpocolypse Swarm. Why are they only taking resources from a single bear?
-Assassination and ambush lie about their odds. When random birds are involved mostly. I have birds that has .06% chance of retreat last through 6-7 turns of assassinating. Occasionally multiple attempts in the same turn. Great for xp... bad for math.
-I've had atlatls get stupid amounts of defense against cavalry for no reason. Like in a city with 3% defense on a hill and a 4.5 stack getting hundreds of extra percentage points level extra.
-Terrain movement costs are seemingly random. Even grasslands cost all your move mostly. Unless you come in at whater random angle grants you one point movement through the tile. 1-2-3 move doesn't seem to matter except when it does. Except salt falls. Those are speedy all the time and respect promotions.
-Ambushers are perfectly fine with movement... except when they occasionally aren't. They are running around with bolt action rifles in the stone age though.
-I have noticed that some Civs build tribes and never use them. However, I'm the big Civ with the worlds most powerful military and there is that stupid barb town with 50+ units nearby. So I'm pretty sure what is happening is that they want to expand, but can't due to raw fear of the mighty. It is only one tribe and lets me recoup the concur cost to population. What happened before is the AI panicked do to the power imbalance and spammed units to feel less panicked unit it went broke and never grew. Progress.
-The deal with that eternal 2 pop town is that its in the artic and all the random barb unit that spawn up there run towards it because they are freezing. Terrain damage made them all run for that one town. I've bottled them up, but they are still a hoard of barbs to cold to squish the world. I spent like 2-3 gundred turns baiting them out with untis and they still have 30+ macemen huddled around that camp fire.
-I've noticed this weird thing where gathers go out and occasionally build a path, but never build the improvements. They just stand there like the order is stuck in commity and are waiting for someone to invent paper so they can fill out the forms.
-Actually the only AIs on the continent that are doing much are Hilter of the Tupi and that barb evolved Roman guy that took over Russia. Hilter has that invincible to bear cavalry atlatl there. Super weapons and all.

---
I'm not quite sure what options I picked off the top of my head (barbarian world, raging, animals spawn in your land, animals don't attack much or something) but managed to set up a scenario where subdued didn't teleport back to town and stuck spawned in with no move when killed. While frustrating, especially once I got to the ancient age and the bug resolved itself, it did give me a real chance to bug test the most terrible units ever. The effects they have in town are great. The massive time sink ferrying them back not so much. Like 15+ hours of stone age testing here.
-Paper subdued have 1 combat power, but can't fight. Why do they even have combat power if the pop like soap bubbles?
-Paper subdued spawn with no move on the square the subduer ends up on. Meanwhile, captives spawn on the square the subduer started on with one more. Wee bit of an issue.
-Paper subdued, even in a stack, move before the combat units. This means if you set up the stack (subduer plus subdued) to move through fog-of-war-lite the subdued will move onto the space square you sent them through, but the subduer will stop dead and warn you of the threat. This means micromanage your escort or risk losing the stack to a random stealthed unit or whatever. Otherwise you can lose the stack completely to the random unit you ran into. Kill the opponent or lose the bounty. Why do they get to move first?
-I have many random situation where tracker moves onto the tile of the stack and fight a the paper subdued, and the tracker/hunter guarding them just lets them. I then start my turn with a enemy tracker and my captured paper unit on the same square as the guard unit. This happens with recon units on forests. Why isn't my unit stopping this? Is assassination that much fun for them?
-Even if I don't have the tech to access a paper subdued building it still shows up in the options. Why isn't there a hide option for these effects? I realize I get knowledge of what I need to keep around for later, but I'm getting the option to build the base science building I already have, but can't because I already built it. Shouldn't the option to hide obsolete worker actions hide that bit at the very least?
-Did I mention that recon units in stealth won't defend again other recon units when guarding?

---(Edit)
Oh and I forgot the bug lengthening game turns the most. Jogging. Endless jogging. Specifically there is an old bug that mostly effected subdued cats. Basically I'm getting turns where units don't show up in the square when the auto select is on them. They square is empty. Only the unit graphic isn't missing, its jogging. Like I move the unit anyway and a blurred streak shows up and the unit is in the new square now. Random units or piles of units have their sprite run off screen and eventually jog back on screen in a circular arc. Turns often won't finish processing until they finish jogging. Mostly its not combatants, but its always lagging things. Stupid light exercise enthusiasts.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

-Despite being a stack unit composed of multiple animals fuse together, killing fused unit grants only the resources of killing a single unit stack. This means killing one of the invisible 9 stacks of brown bears in the early stone age gives you the same hammers and food as killing a single brown bear. This is stupid... like buffalo jumps effects of herd populations level stupid. I killed off a Bearpocolypse Swarm. Why are they only taking resources from a single bear?

The code for kills is only for single animals. This is a bug in Size Matters.

-Terrain movement costs are seemingly random. Even grasslands cost all your move mostly. Unless you come in at whater random angle grants you one point movement through the tile. 1-2-3 move doesn't seem to matter except when it does. Except salt falls. Those are speedy all the time and respect promotions.

Has been reported. There were some changes in how movement is calculated and this is one area which is bugged. I have been able to move a unit 6 plots when it should only have gone 3-4.

-The deal with that eternal 2 pop town is that its in the artic and all the random barb unit that spawn up there run towards it because they are freezing. Terrain damage made them all run for that one town. I've bottled them up, but they are still a hoard of barbs to cold to squish the world. I spent like 2-3 gundred turns baiting them out with untis and they still have 30+ macemen huddled around that camp fire.

Barbarians are supposed to get the promotions that negate the terrain damage from plots they spawn on.

I'm not quite sure what options I picked off the top of my head (barbarian world, raging, animals spawn in your land, animals don't attack much or something) but managed to set up a scenario where subdued didn't teleport back to town and stuck spawned in with no move when killed. While frustrating, especially once I got to the ancient age and the bug resolved itself, it did give me a real chance to bug test the most terrible units ever. The effects they have in town are great. The massive time sink ferrying them back not so much. Like 15+ hours of stone age testing here.

Unless you have the "Teleport.." game option on, subdued animals need to be escorted back to your territory until you get Sedentary Lifestyle. The AI is programmed to expect hunting that way and it works better for the AI if the human players have to work at getting the animals safely home.

-Paper subdued, even in a stack, move before the combat units. This means if you set up the stack (subduer plus subdued) to move through fog-of-war-lite the subdued will move onto the space square you sent them through, but the subduer will stop dead and warn you of the threat. This means micromanage your escort or risk losing the stack to a random stealthed unit or whatever. Otherwise you can lose the stack completely to the random unit you ran into. Kill the opponent or lose the bounty. Why do they get to move first?

Known bug. I have reported it often

-Even if I don't have the tech to access a paper subdued building it still shows up in the options. Why isn't there a hide option for these effects? I realize I get knowledge of what I need to keep around for later, but I'm getting the option to build the base science building I already have, but can't because I already built it. Shouldn't the option to hide obsolete worker actions hide that bit at the very least?

There was an option to do it but it hid a lot of other information also. Needs a lot of work to get it to work in a way that doesn't "break" other stuff.

 

[raxo2222]

Now its time for a bug report on 38.5. Like Oprahbees.gif level bugs for me. I haven't updated before this in like a year so I'm paying attention to the differences. Played at noble.

-At level 11 there is a promotion that gives a (quality up) effect granting more base stats for the unit. It resets the units xp to 0. From 140 to zero.

This one is intentional feature.
I guess tooltip should be added to this promotion (quality up), that it resets all experience.

 

[Thunderbrd]

guess tooltip should be added to this promotion (quality up), that it resets all experience.

It's there and it says so. People just don't always read everything they do.

Known bug. I have reported it often

Not really a bug but an unintended consequence of rules enforcement in the way the Koshling movement code was written. No workaround that I can tell except to enforce the whole stack be unable to explore. What does 'Paper' subdued refer to though?

The code for kills is only for single animals. This is a bug in Size Matters.

Animals aren't supposed to be mergable so SO's insistence on allowing it is causing a bug. He's been told about that and doesn't care.

Has been reported. There were some changes in how movement is calculated and this is one area which is bugged. I have been able to move a unit 6 plots when it should only have gone 3-4.

I think this just boils down to players being unable to understand how it calculates it out - trails matter a lot with high movement units. I did fix a bug in this recently though. Too complex to explain it though.

Barbarians are supposed to get the promotions that negate the terrain damage from plots they spawn on.

Have you ever seen that happen?

However, instead of simply getting the 'wanted' promotion, the unit was killed. Is that intended?

You sure it was killed and not arrested during the next round? Your turn was over for him, then the opponent had a turn and during that turn, the wanted unit was there and available to be attacked/arrested by a local law enforcement unit and of course they would've moved in to do so, at which point only really strong criminals can defend themselves enough to survive the attack. Shouldn't have been killed outright at the moment of being made wanted unless there truly is a bug.

 

[strategyonly]

Animals aren't supposed to be mergable so SO's insistence on allowing it is causing a bug. He's been told about that and doesn't care.

Well i only upgrade cats and dogs . . and that only works from Classical to Med Era, then stops again and cant do it again . . .at least for cats that is . . .

 

[Thunderbrd]

Well i only upgrade cats and dogs . . and that only works from Classical to Med Era, then stops again and cant do it again . . .at least for cats that is . . .

I'd have to research his issue further to see if it's related then.

 

[Morlark]

You sure it was killed and not arrested during the next round? Your turn was over for him, then the opponent had a turn and during that turn, the wanted unit was there and available to be attacked/arrested by a local law enforcement unit and of course they would've moved in to do so, at which point only really strong criminals can defend themselves enough to survive the attack. Shouldn't have been killed outright at the moment of being made wanted unless there truly is a bug.

No, it was instantly killed at the moment I hit the infiltrate button. My turn did not end.

Here's the relevant code in CvUnit::infiltrate :

    if (!isSpy() && criminalSuccessCheck())
    {
        changeExperience100(100);
        GET_TEAM(getTeam()).changeEspionagePointsAgainstTeam(GET_PLAYER(plot()->getOwnerINLINE()).getTeam(), iPoints);
        GET_TEAM(getTeam()).changeEspionagePointsEver(iPoints);
        if (pCapital != NULL)
        {
            finishMoves();
            setXY(pCapital->getX(), pCapital->getY(), false, true, true, false, false);
        }
    }
    else
    {
        GET_TEAM(getTeam()).changeEspionagePointsAgainstTeam(GET_PLAYER(plot()->getOwnerINLINE()).getTeam(), iPoints);
        GET_TEAM(getTeam()).changeEspionagePointsEver(iPoints);
        kill(true, NO_PLAYER, true);
    }

As you can see, the failure conditional effect calls 'kill' on the unit in question (but also still adds the espionage points?).

 

[Thunderbrd]

No, it was instantly killed at the moment I hit the infiltrate button. My turn did not end.

Here's the relevant code in CvUnit::infiltrate :

    if (!isSpy() && criminalSuccessCheck())
    {
        changeExperience100(100);
        GET_TEAM(getTeam()).changeEspionagePointsAgainstTeam(GET_PLAYER(plot()->getOwnerINLINE()).getTeam(), iPoints);
        GET_TEAM(getTeam()).changeEspionagePointsEver(iPoints);
        if (pCapital != NULL)
        {
            finishMoves();
            setXY(pCapital->getX(), pCapital->getY(), false, true, true, false, false);
        }
    }
    else
    {
        GET_TEAM(getTeam()).changeEspionagePointsAgainstTeam(GET_PLAYER(plot()->getOwnerINLINE()).getTeam(), iPoints);
        GET_TEAM(getTeam()).changeEspionagePointsEver(iPoints);
        kill(true, NO_PLAYER, true);
    }

As you can see, the failure conditional effect calls 'kill' on the unit in question (but also still adds the espionage points?).

Yeah I see the bug. I'll address it someday. The Criminal success Check filter needs to be entirely nested within the !isSpy() check. None of the things in this else statement are supposed to apply if !isSpy() is true, whether criminalSuccessCheck() is true or not. oops.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

That is exactly what is supposed to happen with Spies. They succeed in their mission but are caught and killed after completing it but before they can get away.

 

[Morlark]

On SVN r10127:

Upon building my first city, all of the "[metal] near one of your cities" buildings are immediately constructed.

I believe this is because they are all set as <bAutoBuild>1</bAutoBuild>, but they have no prerequisite criteria, meaning they are immediately eligible to be built.