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Single Player bugs and crashes v39 download - After July 20th, 2019

Discussion in 'Bugs and Crashes' started by Thunderbrd, Jul 21, 2019.

  1. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    It's pretty much an innate ability though for a Master Tracker, which I assume was what he was working with. It does look like he would've had to have a unit that was both double moving through every plot AND have Ignores Terrain Cost active AND I'm not sure even a Master Tracker only has 2 movement points - this evaluation only works if the unit had 3. I will assume he did since I can't see any reason he would be able to do all that if he didn't.

    It is entirely possible that the minimum 1 move point in an attack may not actually be the case. Those units that ignore terrain costs were making all plot movements 1 pt THEN the doubling would apply, which in the case of a feature double move was making each plot cost only .25.

    I've crafted a set of rules for that scenario that should be a little more constrained... somewhat. At least without making the combination worthless. With my next commit, you'd be able to move up to 4 spaces with a 2 move unit that's moving through ANY applicable terrain or feature it has double movement in IF it ALSO has Ignores Terrain Costs. That is still, admittedly, a lot. There's also Hit and Run which can give -1 Terrain Movement cost, which can reduce to the plot, pre-modified by doublemoves, down to a minimum of 1, which could explain how plots are getting down to 1 cost/4 for having the feature that applies to double move. That might be a bit harder to correct actually...

    The big question here at hand really is, should double move just mean you get an extra movement if you've moved through that terrain/feature or should it really mean DOUBLE your movement when moving through this terrain/feature (making it both cheaper AND faster than normal terrain/feature such that you get extra movement for moving through it as you did in vanilla)? I'm open to discussion on this but consider that there's NO point to taking a double move promotion if you are a single move point unit if it doesn't mean you get an extra space moved after moving onto such a plot, and that's something players from way back have come to expect it to do.

    So if we want to change it to adding an extra move point after a movement resolution if the unit has an applicable double movement, so that it compensates one point of the movement and enables an extra plot (possibly slightly more if you have a lot of movement and can build up enough extra movement points with each move) then I would be happy to see if we can do that. I say 'see if we can' because I'm not sure about some of the order of events that takes place outside the plot function that determines the move cost of the plot. It may be that if the unit ends up with no movement left it immediately loses the ability to move even if it gains another movement point afterward, which would then require releasing the finished status at that point. I think it could also be dangerous as well, potentially enabling an infinite loop of movement, if it adds a full movement point, even if a plot assumes an absolute 1 movement point minimum. This method wouldn't quite translate as well to the setup for navies though.

    Another thing I CAN do is make plots cost a minimum of .9 so that it still allows an extra space at the end of a movement that includes a plot you have double movement for, but unless you are getting to move 10 plots or more in one go, you are only getting one extra plot at most after all this.

    Would that be more suitable for folks?

    Tell ya what, that's what I'll do for now, since yes, moving up to 8 spaces on a 4 move unit is not very realism promoting. Tests show it seems to hit the notes people seem to expect of double movement, not being too strong, but also not incapable of doubling the actual movement of a 1 mv unit.

    Edit Note: Comments are still open on the subject... I'm out of time to commit this tonight anyhow. I'm tooling about with Git and trying to figure out how to commit here and it's going to take a bit. Then how to work with both systems at once is going to be interesting as well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  2. alberts2

    alberts2 Emperor

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    It's just not possible to fullfill the double moves rule in all possible situations. Either you end up with newer or less moves. Also the calculation itself doesn't add moves it only reduces the movement cost that's a wrong promise to the player.

    You could restore the code to how it was a
    week ago before your recent changes. Change the text display for the double moves tags into 'Faster movement......'. This way those tags won't promise you get double moves and just promise faster movement which will be true in much more situations.

    In some cases it might also be wanted or more realistic to have units move slower through rough terrain. E.g. heavy tanks through jungle or a swamp.
     
  3. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    What do you mean by newer?
    It added moves in vanilla therefore to maintain tradition it must continue to. However, I can understand if you're argument is that it cannot be allowed to be imbalancing and add more than one extra space in a given turn.
    The tag, strange as it is, has always meant that although the terrain is rougher terrain, for THIS unit, its actually easier to cross than unhindered terrain is.

    I believe what I have now created the right balance - that's not what's on the SVN. You'll have to see what comes up on the SVN - obviously trying to explain it isn't getting my points across very well.
     
  4. alberts2

    alberts2 Emperor

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    Stupid Autocorrect! I meant never not newer.
     
  5. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I'm still confused?
     
  6. alberts2

    alberts2 Emperor

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    Me too:crazyeye: i really must have lost my mind somewhere:crazyeye:.

    It seems that C2C is just to complex for my brain at the moment i go play something simple like Tetris or CivVI for a while.
     
  7. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I have a hard time believing that it's too complex for one of the best programmers I know ;)
     
  8. tmv

    tmv Emperor

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    :lol: Nice comparison.
     
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  9. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    It is a bit too common at the moment due to changes elsewhere. It is part of the reason I need to get some feedback on the Hunting Review.
     
  10. Trantor

    Trantor Warlord

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    game turn is becoming slow. but this game is great! AI is good ... Greek did a nuke campaign
     

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  11. Esfera

    Esfera Chieftain

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    The city size requisite for the Academy doesn't seem to be working as intended.
    Spoiler :


     
  12. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    This building is only one with ForceBuilding tag or something like that.
    This means requirements are ignored.
    This tag is going to be removed in SVN, and building will have normal requirements.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
  13. E.M. Lurker

    E.M. Lurker Chieftain

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    New v39 game, my units are changing appearances (from slightly advanced to primitive) when selected and then changing back after a while of being unselected.

    (I assume starting with a bunch of wanderers, gatherers, and throwers is the new normal?)
     
  14. KaTiON_PT

    KaTiON_PT Emperor

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    Do you happen to have animations off? It sounds like that's the issue.
     
  15. E.M. Lurker

    E.M. Lurker Chieftain

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    Looks like that was it, thanks!
     
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  16. Uriel246

    Uriel246 Chieftain

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    In my current play, i'm unable of end turn 2750 (approx). The game keep processing the turn infinitely (more than 2 hours). I had some CTDs and MAFs but is the first time i see something like this.

    Some options:
    C2C_Planet_Generator_0_68 map
    Giant Size
    Eternity speed
    Map size override: 260x160
    Barbarian Civs enabled ( i supose currently the game have 35 or more AI civs)


    Is this normal? I can upload the savegames o give more info is necesary.

    Have my game come to the end it can handle?
     
  17. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Upload save, as you play WAAAYYY past soft limits - it may be interesting save to study for coders.
    Gigantic map is 13000 tiles, pit scenario is 26000 tiles, your map is 41600 tiles.
    Gigantic map has 14 or 16 AIs by default.

    2750th turn on 20 000 turn gamespeed is early game - tech leader should be in Ancient era.
    On Gigantic you would be fine till end game if you had all memory saving options on.
    Pits scenario means trouble in Atomic era.

    If you want moderately fast turn times and no mafs, then play on Standard/Large sized maps.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  18. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    I hope you have a Super Computer. Perhaps an i9 cpu with more than 4.2GHz speed, a big SSD, and a video card with more than 8GB of DDR5 vid ram.

    You pushed the limits of this Old Game engine that BtS has, a single core 32 bit engine.

    And what Difficulty level do you set the Handicap to by the way? Deity?
     
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  19. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    32 GB DDR5 RAM with 3 GHz speed is a must too here :D
    No need for this much RAM, but usually good computers have this much.

    This PC cooling must be impressive.
    I bet he can heat whole house with it :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
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  20. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    This is certainly, as Raxo said, something to look into for numerous reasons.

    Still, a hang bug is not likely to have anything to do with system resources or pressing the limits, as if things run out of memory it just MAF crashes and that's it. You've clearly found an actual hang point and that would be interesting to look into. Usually this is a problem in the AI.
     
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