Single Player bugs and crashes v40 plus (SVN) - After Oct 2019

[Thunderbrd]

And you are playing with the New Complex Traits Option (per your post in another thread). This changes everything. Because Every Leader is no longer the same as the default Trait Options (the base Traits that we have had for several years). And Complex Traits is still basically a WIP from Thunderbrd. You and others are now providing test games through your usage of them. Expect oddities.

I run test games constantly for the base game options while I do Civic rebalancing. I can not use Complex Traits. And as such I do not see the things you are reporting in my test games. I don't have AI with 17 Story Tellers in 1 of their cities. That was a problem a couple of versions back, v37 and v38. But since billw2015 has joined the Team that in a base game with minimum Game Set up Options do not exhibit these tendencies.

I think its more of a problem in the AI than in any given option he's using. Not sure if it's a PROBLEM per se... depends on what needs the AI was actually responding to but there are known overtraining bugs still, particularly in regards to property control and vision units. It's not a matter of having too much gold available I don't think, more a matter of some control factor not functioning properly. Needs extremely deep complex evaluation I just don't currently have the patience to address.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I think its more of a problem in the AI than in any given option he's using. Not sure if it's a PROBLEM per se... depends on what needs the AI was actually responding to but there are known overtraining bugs still, particularly in regards to property control and vision units. It's not a matter of having too much gold available I don't think, more a matter of some control factor not functioning properly. Needs extremely deep complex evaluation I just don't currently have the patience to address.

I just don't see this in my test games. I test w/o Complex Traits. Stated for comparison.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I just don't see this in my test games. I test w/o Complex Traits. Stated for comparison.

OK, cool enough.

Just be aware that traits are only going to change leader behaviors in a secondary manner - the choice of traits will not change how they choose to play, only the circumstances they may be operating under. Traits are a result of Leader AI personality settings rather than something that defines the leader's AI personality settings.

Sure, the complex traits could be a factor. The AI he was looking at may indeed have traits that reduce his education, leading to a major need to train educators to compensate (that's actually quite likely come to think of it.)

The given AI player may have more or less production or gold or something to enable them to make the choice to squander resources (and that's IF it's even squandering those resources.) The AI city could be surrounded by hills and has a lot more production from all the mines, or the game is played on a map with more resources, giving more production and gold power to the nations on that map. It's possible that city needed tons of educators because some AI or Barb criminals were promoted to destroy education or something. The AI could own a city that needs to improve its education but it cannot get the educators its training to board a boat to get them to that city so it just keeps complaining about the problem and the capital just keeps training units to address it, none of which having the ability to go to the source of the issue. Just saying there's a lot of possible reasons.

It's good to know you're not seeing this problem in your test games. That tells me this is a highly variable issue. I'm just sharing my thought process in trying to figure out what could be wrong, or even if something actually is.

There have been a number of reports of hundreds of Dogs being trained in AI cities too. I've been suspecting that the overtraining of Dogs might be somewhat due to Dogs being chosen for combat roles because they overall compare pretty well against standard combat units when you aren't using Size Matters and it's been seeming like a lot of the Dog overtraining reports have been from non-SM games. For comparison, have you seen this to be an issue? The other possibility is a major problem in the See Invisible unit AI.

 

[De Bezoeker]

Please list your Game Set up Options. This behavior sounds like a typical Emperor game with Revolutions On. How Many AI and what sized map used?

Also with 942 Techs spread over 15 Eras comparing Vanilla to C2C game play is just a little skewed. And yeah it is a bit easier because of the content vs vanilla's sparsity.

Finally Thank You for playing C2C!

My pleasure entirely.

As shown in the screenshot I'm playing with revolutions off, but with complex etc traits on, so I guess that accounts for the different behaviour..

I'm playing with the C2C_World mapscript size huge and 21 AI players.

In the earlier save I kept, Mongolia hasn't recruited as many storytellers as they would later and my intel isn't sufficient to immediately show yet, but in the worldbuilder it can be seen they have gotten a lot of cost incurring units stationed in their capitol.

 

[De Bezoeker]

By the way, I changed the following xml: "..\Caveman2Cosmos\Assets\XML\Buildings\Cultures_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml" to remove the coast requirement for the cultures 'Sabatean' and 'Himyar'. Just in case if this gives any loading issues.. But this shouldn't impact anything I reported. I cleared the cache before switching to this mod and I clean installed it from the SVN so for the rest it should be the default gamestate.

 

[JosEPh_II]

When a leader gains more than 3 Traits is when things can become "different". And many of the New Traits under Complex have strong Bonuses and Malus. As we get more and more players trying Complex Traits the oddities will show up and eventually be worked over and smoothed out. Not an uncommon practice for C2C with a new feature.

 

[JosEPh_II]

There have been a number of reports of hundreds of Dogs being trained in AI cities too. I've been suspecting that the overtraining of Dogs might be somewhat due to Dogs being chosen for combat roles because they overall compare pretty well against standard combat units when you aren't using Size Matters and it's been seeming like a lot of the Dog overtraining reports have been from non-SM games. For comparison, have you seen this to be an issue?

No I have not. The AI uses Dogs just like I do, or vice versa. In any case not with Hordes of them cached in a city.

And as comparison, as you know, I don't use the Combat Mods for Test games either. I need simple base C2C games for the Civics rebalancing to keep outside influences under check.

OT Side note: Just about have my new Comp up to where I want it. Waiting on newer used 8GB Vid card to come Friday or Saturday. Now have an i7 6700 3.4Ghz cpu with 16GB of DDR4 2133Mhz ram with a new 600W PS. And with the new vid card this newer comp built in 2016 will have cost me just at $400 (bought thru Ebay Auctions). Has a Define Case (brand name) that is sound deadening and it is sooo quiet! My Old comp (which now has a good used mobo @$70 cost) is also back up and running. So for around $500 I have 2 running comps in good to decent shape.

 

[Blazenclaw]

I may be wrong, but - by starting on Noble the AI only gets the Noble settings. Switching to Deity (via WB) on the next turn does not change the AI settings. They are still on Noble. So you have a bigger advantage

I know starting on noble makes the AI start without another settler + stack of stone throwers and wanderers as it normally does on deity (which is entirely the point), but was under the impression that by using the BUG options to change difficulty did have an impact on the AI. I don't recall my check for it, but I'd thought that changing the difficulty that way changed the turns to tech completion of the AI, hmm.

The given AI player may have more or less production or gold or something to enable them to make the choice to squander resources (and that's IF it's even squandering those resources.) The AI city could be surrounded by hills and has a lot more production from all the mines, or the game is played on a map with more resources, giving more production and gold power to the nations on that map. It's possible that city needed tons of educators because some AI or Barb criminals were promoted to destroy education or something. The AI could own a city that needs to improve its education but it cannot get the educators its training to board a boat to get them to that city so it just keeps complaining about the problem and the capital just keeps training units to address it, none of which having the ability to go to the source of the issue. Just saying there's a lot of possible reasons.

In this case as the AI only had one city (maybe, halfway to Tribalism) it's unlikely that it was runaway crime, most likely the trait mentioned. If I see it happening again, I'll post a save file/take a look at their city, see what's going on.

For comparison, have you seen this [dog stack] to be an issue?

I played my first game without SM and second with; I have yet to see the dog aggro stack in the SM game, though it's still relatively early into the game (late Ancient era). In either case however, I don't think it is an issue with see invisible units (in the general case), as I only saw the crazy dog numbers as part of aggressive doomstacks, not in giant numbers in or around their cities, where they had a reasonable, non-zero number. Sidenote, in that first game, I made the mistake of leaving animations on for defense; watching a warlord chief on a forest, hill, fort tile defend against 70+ canine units took a good few minutes

 

[Stimpified]

Updated to SVN 11057, started a new game (now at turn 21) and no unit upgrades regardless of all prereqs being met...

 

[Blazenclaw]

Updated to SVN 11057, started a new game (now at turn 21) and no unit upgrades regardless of all prereqs being met...

What units are you trying to upgrade by turn 21?

 

[Thunderbrd]

I played my first game without SM and second with; I have yet to see the dog aggro stack in the SM game, though it's still relatively early into the game (late Ancient era). In either case however, I don't think it is an issue with see invisible units (in the general case), as I only saw the crazy dog numbers as part of aggressive doomstacks, not in giant numbers in or around their cities, where they had a reasonable, non-zero number. Sidenote, in that first game, I made the mistake of leaving animations on for defense; watching a warlord chief on a forest, hill, fort tile defend against 70+ canine units took a good few minutes

OK, so it happens on SM games as well. That certainly points more towards an inappropriate stack provision for See Invisible units rather than just an issue with dogs having too much strength, though it does sound like it COULD be that they are still evaluating too well for basic attack units. Would take some research to figure it out.

EDIT: I read this all wrong the first time. You weren't saying you saw the dog stack on SM, only on NON-SM games. Right. Let me know if you do see them on SM games as well.

 

[futar]

I have had AI players, barbarians and neandertals stacking dogs and/or watchmen (and in their updated forms) in the houndreds for months now. At one time I had to set max stack size to 100 unites per tile, else the game would crash if I killed 1-2-300 units at a time (this was using "superfelines with SM", therefore, some time ago. All those games were in deity mode, and increasing difficulty for AI enabled. Recently I mostly noticed AI players stacking dogs, both in cities and outside. When I set the unit limit per tile to 100, sometimes the AI players would sorround their cities with several 100 unit piles. Also noticed that the 100 unit per tile limit does not apply to all sorts of units.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I have had AI players, barbarians and neandertals stacking dogs and/or watchmen (and in their updated forms) in the houndreds for months now. At one time I had to set max stack size to 100 unites per tile, else the game would crash if I killed 1-2-300 units at a time (this was using "superfelines with SM", therefore, some time ago. All those games were in deity mode, and increasing difficulty for AI enabled. Recently I mostly noticed AI players stacking dogs, both in cities and outside. When I set the unit limit per tile to 100, sometimes the AI players would sorround their cities with several 100 unit piles. Also noticed that the 100 unit per tile limit does not apply to all sorts of units.

Tile limits like this just frustrate stacks that won't mobilize until they reach the strength levels they feel they need to reach to be 'ready' to use. Thus it will cause the AI to build a LOT more of them and never use them properly. The reasons for overtraining now may differ from the reasons we had before. May.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Updated to SVN 11057, started a new game (now at turn 21) and no unit upgrades regardless of all prereqs being met...

How about a screenshot.

And same question as asked and as posted after you, What unit are you trying to upgrade at turn 21? What Game Speed are you playing on? Ultra? Did you start in prehistoric Era or another Era by mistake?

 

[strategyonly]

wasn't this more transparent before?? it needs to be, thx. . .

 

[Toffer90]

wasn't this more transparent before?? it needs to be, thx. . .

Last time that transparency changed was in 11027 (Sep. 3.); it was there made to be more transparent, so no, it used to be less transparent.

I'll change it more for you, of course.

 

[LumenAngel]

Clones can't build Vertical Farm, you need Androids for that. But Android come after Vertical Farming...

 

[irishhombre]

Clones can't build Vertical Farm, you need Androids for that. But Android come after Vertical Farming...

I have memories of that existing before V40.

 

[irishhombre]

There is an issue with Civilopedia, using SVN 11057. Screenshot and save uploaded.

Spoiler Civilopedia Issue :

Off Topic: By the way nice work with the tech tree, improved greatly.

 

[Toffer90]

There is an issue with Civilopedia, using SVN 11057. Screenshot and save uploaded.

Can't reproduce the problem.

Do you use any modmods?
Try a clean C2C install; after a "SVN clean up" I mean.