"Slept my way up to the top"

[Valka D'Ur]

Sorry, but i'm going to be sexist here - politics are for men. That's my personal opinion, please don't hate me for it ^^

I recommend you read up on the suffragette movements in various countries. Women went through a hell of a lot to get the vote, and I will not dishonor their hard work and effort by not participating in the political process.

Frankly, I find the "politics is for men" attitude obscene. Politics is for everyone.


Dusters, you identify as female. How are the abortion laws in your country - do women have unimpeded access to them? How about contraception? These are increasingly political issues in North America and much of the rest of the world.

 

[dusters]

I'm speaking along the "survival of the fittest" lines there. If somebody wants to stand out and make a revolution or a movement, it is their choice.

When i was younger, i thought that i could magically go up to the prime minister of Latvia and tell him that 95% of young transsexuals (18-30 age) are emigrating (which was true according to survey i conducted in 2009 with a sample size of about forty transpersons. Bare in mind transsexuality is about 1:10000, intersexuality even rarer, but transvestism more common).

Yes, abortion is accessible and so is contraception.

My sister is 21, she is very much into politics. Yet she has a long term boyfriend and has completely different issues in life, because unlike me - she conforms to hot female status quo and she gets accepted to work in cafes based on her looks alone without even trying to charm anyone.

Just as an example - we had a really talented young man, with a degree in law obtained in a prestigous USA Uni apply for a minister position in Ministry of Justice. He had education, great CV, working experience and work ethic. He was the best candidate. But he was gay. The party which he was a member of told him to work in an embassy abroad instead...

I work as a volunteer in the local LGBT organisation. It is very oriented towards politics and trying to help legalise single sex unions in Latvia. What I actually do there? i wash dishes after meetings and clean up. Because i like it and someone has to do it anyway.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I had "Ask a femmekin" recently.

Are you implying that you are exhausted of Ask-a-threads? That would be fair enough.
Yet I would like to add: Not offense but an ask-a-prostitute-thread would be infinitely more interesting than an "Ask a femmekin" - thread.
To be blunt: Femmeking is most of all a bewildering obscurity to most people. But prostitution touches areas everyone one way or the other deals with (the role of sex - in society but also in private). And to learn about the experiences of a prostitute may shed much light on both of them.
However - I understand that this may hit a bit too close to home, so whatever you are comfortable. Just saying.

I doubt very much that's the way "slut shaming" works.

You are making the assumption here that men, generally, are commited to the women that sleep with them implicitly or explicitly in exchange for favors.
So right at the premise the whole thing doesn't really hold up.

I don't understand. Men are committed in exchange for favors? That sounds like (to pick a particularly illustrative random example) a man staying with a woman because she licks his anus.
Sorry, I am missing the parallel to what I said

 

[dusters]

No, i'm an artist, publicity stuff is what i do daily. I can make "ask a high class prostitute" thread, if there is interest.

However, since majority of my clients are heterosexual women in 40-50s and gays instead of heterosexual men ( which are the main group of OTF, i suppose) i'm unsure if it would interest enough posters.

There is nothing i'm afraid to speak of.

 

[Wrymouth3]

A modern-day male politician who got caught up in a sex scandal is not quite the same thing as an Empress of Rome who competed with a member of the Guild of Prostitutes to see who could wear out the most men in one night (I suspect the Guild member wisely opted not to win, no matter how the contest went, since Messalina could be a very vengeful and petty woman).

Pretty sure Berlusconi had his guild of young girls at the bunga bunga parties. Especially young North Africans who were essentially forced, drugged, or drunk at these celebrations by European football's finest owner . I wouldn't say Messalina was petty, she had a group of nobles that attempted to undermine her through her inefficent husband. Agrippina the Younger's faction attempted desperately time and time again to kill off Messalina's children so an heir could be from the opposing faction. Remember, her husband was declared emperor while supposedly cowering behind a curtain.

 

[metatron]

I don't understand. Men are committed in exchange for favors? That sounds like (to pick a particularly illustrative random example) a man staying with a woman because she licks his anus.
Sorry, I am missing the parallel to what I said

No, they're typically not. That's the point.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

I got that you think that is not the way it works.
What I did not get is why you think that I think that this is the way it works. I am missing the bridge from what I said to what you said I said.

 

[warpus]

I work as a volunteer in the local LGBT organisation. It is very oriented towards politics and trying to help legalise single sex unions in Latvia. What I actually do there? i wash dishes after meetings and clean up. Because i like it and someone has to do it anyway.

So stick to doing the dishes, or whatever you're into. But saying that politics isn't for women is offensive.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Pretty sure Berlusconi had his guild of young girls at the bunga bunga parties. Especially young North Africans who were essentially forced, drugged, or drunk at these celebrations by European football's finest owner . I wouldn't say Messalina was petty, she sure had a group of nobles that attempted to undermine her through her inefficent husband. Remember, her husband was declared emperor while supposedly cowering behind a curtain.

People undermined Messalina via Claudius being inefficient?

Even allowing that some of the things in the history books about her may be exaggerated or sheer lies perpetrated by her enemies, it's generally agreed that she was unfaithful to her husband, and openly courted other men - thinking Claudius too stupid to find out, or if he did, too indulgent to do anything about it. Her transgressions were known to many people, but for the longest time nobody dared to tell Claudius for fear of reprisals from Messalina (since they too assumed he would do nothing against her).

It was perfectly reasonable for Claudius to hide behind the curtain. Caligula's assassins were determined to kill every single member of the Imperial family, and Claudius was no soldier who knew how to defend himself.

 

[metatron]

I got that you think that is not the way it works.
What I did not get is why you think that I think that this is the way it works. I am missing the bridge from what I said to what you said I said.

I'm speculating here, allright.
Feel free to explain what the heck is supposed to be expressed in the first paragraph of your post #2.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Ah man, you could have really bothered to lay out your reasoning at this point. At least that is what I was interested in. It would make it a lot easier for me to explain my self in a way that sheds light on the contention you have. 'cause right now I don't get your contention because I don't get how it relates to my point of view.
But I'll play...

Okay, after some musing I think I got it. :sigh: (still annoyed that you didn't properly explain yourself)

Look - you speak of "favours". That doesn't fit at all what I said from where I stand.
Because a favour is a very contextualized thing. It depends on what a man will actually like. Men will not necessarily like fathering whatever girl. They should from an evolutionary standpoint - but they don't.

Why?

Because the historic setting where our instincts evolved is terribly different from the contemporary setting. In the historic setting - having children made men happy because they wanted to bone. And they were most happy to bone a girl they had for themselves. Because those men were more successful in carrying on their gene line.
Promiscuous women were instinctively more uninteresting - because they could carry who-knowes-whoes-child.
Now that picture is what I based my reasoning on.

What you can not do - but you apparently did (sorry if I am wrong here - but I had to figure it out all by myself) is to replace this specific scenario with "favours" and translate it into a modern setting.

In the modern setting man happily bone without then nuisance of children.
But - they still instinctively value faithful women over "sluts". Unless cultural/personal factors override this instinct, as said.

So this is my theory. You are welcome to poke holes into it.

 

[Wrymouth3]

People undermined Messalina via Claudius being inefficient?

Even allowing that some of the things in the history books about her may be exaggerated or sheer lies perpetrated by her enemies, it's generally agreed that she was unfaithful to her husband, and openly courted other men - thinking Claudius too stupid to find out, or if he did, too indulgent to do anything about it. Her transgressions were known to many people, but for the longest time nobody dared to tell Claudius for fear of reprisals from Messalina (since they too assumed he would do nothing against her).

It was perfectly reasonable for Claudius to hide behind the curtain. Caligula's assassins were determined to kill every single member of the Imperial family, and Claudius was no soldier who knew how to defend himself.

No, they attempted to undermine her via trying to get through the idiocy of her husband, ala they tried to influence him. See the writings about the 1st century version of Johnny Witts, Tiberius Claudius. That guy not only turned on Messalina to control Claudius, but he also made the genius decision splitting Mauretania for no reason. I'm not defending a noted crazy person like Valeria Messalina, but she attempted as best as she could to defend whatever ambition she had in this hostile landscape of generally incompetant people. People did indeed tell Claudius about her machinations and plans to expand the power of her family. Read Josephus and Cassius Dio in regards to this.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

No, they attempted to undermine her via trying to get through the idiocy of her husband, ala they tried to influence him. I'm not defending a noted crazy person like Valeria Messalina, but she attempted as best as she could to defend whatever ambition she had in this hostile landscape of generally incompetant people. People did indeed tell Claudius about her machinations and plans to expand the power of her family. Read Josephus and Cassius Dio in regards to this.

I already knew this, thank you. You didn't make yourself clear. And I still don't get why you say she wasn't petty.

 

[Wrymouth3]

I already knew this, thank you. You didn't make yourself clear. And I still don't get why you say she wasn't petty.

Lemme refer to something earlier you stated: You noted Valeria Messalina was a noted "Empress of Rome." Already we are off to good start why she wasn't entirely petty, I never stated she didn't commit petty acts (I know next to nothing about daily routines of Julio-Claudian royal families, so I can't say what she did specifically that was petty besides the 24 hour prostitute contest.) First off let me state that Tiberius Narcissus did everything in his power to remove her from her position. Messalina, who was indeed a very easy target for scheming nobility did everything she could in her power to defend the position that was rightfully hers through marriage. Whether or not you want to yell about how she wasn't deserving of the title because of Praetorian Guard ritual is for another time. Again like I said, before assuming everything due to what Robert Graves or what the Simon Schama fawners over at BBC say about the issue (They espouse the same exact thing you are doing about Messalina), lets look at both historical primary sources and the strength of the historiography written about her. I for one am not going to jump on the "lol Messalina was just a scheming whore" train because one vaguely conspicious intepretation says so.

Please don't take what I say out of context, there is no doubt in my mind that the contest happened, it's just that there are other things which are more disputable.

 

[metatron]

Because the historic setting where our instincts evolved is terribly different from the contemporary setting. In the historic setting - having children made men happy because they wanted to bone. And they were most happy to bone a girl they had for themselves. Because those men were more successful in carrying on their gene line.
Promiscuous women were instinctively more uninteresting - because they could carry who-knowes-whoes-child.
Now that picture is what I based my reasoning on.

I can take guesses here and explain problems with the reasoning. But i'll not try to decipher this and and then take the blame for "misrepresenting" you.
Same problem as with the other post really.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Lemme refer to something earlier you stated: You noted Valeria Messalina was a noted "Empress of Rome." Already we are off to good start why she wasn't entirely petty, I never stated she didn't commit petty acts (I know next to nothing about daily routines of Julio-Claudian royal families, so I can't say what she did specifically that was petty besides the 24 hour prostitute contest.) First off let me state that Tiberius Narcissus did everything in his power to remove her from her position. Messalina, who was indeed a very easy target for scheming nobility did everything she could in her power to defend the position that was rightfully hers through marriage. Whether or not you want to yell about how she wasn't deserving of the title because of Praetorian Guard ritual is for another time. Again like I said, before assuming everything due to what Robert Graves or what the Simon Schama fawners over at BBC say about the issue (They espouse the same exact thing you are doing about Messalina), lets look at both historical primary sources and the strength of the historiography written about her. I for one am not going to jump on the "lol Messalina was just a scheming whore" train because one vaguely conspicious intepretation says so.

Please don't take what I say out of context, there is no doubt in my mind that the contest happened, it's just that there are other things which are more disputable.

WTH are you talking about??? Where did I say she wasn't deserving of the title of Empress because of "Praetorian Guard ritual"? What Praetorian Guard ritual?

Of course Messalina was the rightful Empress, since she was married to the man the Praetorian Guard decided was the rightful Emperor (I don't dispute their decision, since Claudius was the eldest adult male in the most direct line of descent available at the time, as Tiberius was his uncle).

I merely said that Claudius very sensibly hid behind the curtain because he was afraid of being murdered. He was no soldier, and had never been trained to physically defend himself, so hiding made perfect sense.

 

[Wrymouth3]

WTH are you talking about??? Where did I say she wasn't deserving of the title of Empress because of "Praetorian Guard ritual"? What Praetorian Guard ritual?

Of course Messalina was the rightful Empress, since she was married to the man the Praetorian Guard decided was the rightful Emperor (I don't dispute their decision, since Claudius was the eldest adult male in the most direct line of descent available at the time, as Tiberius was his uncle).

The latter of what you said. They were the first to declare an emperor and an empress, I thought you knew what I was talking about when I mentioned it. I wasn't talking about you specifically saying something about it, I was just noting in general since some historians argue how certain emperors and empresses weren't legitimate based on that decleration alone.

 

[Bootstoots]

No, i'm an artist, publicity stuff is what i do daily. I can make "ask a high class prostitute" thread, if there is interest.

Moderator Action: Interesting as it would be, that thread can't be allowed: it would violate a number of rules, especially inappropriate content, and could pose legal problems for CFC.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

The latter of what you said. They were the first to declare an emperor and an empress, I thought you knew what I was talking about when I mentioned it. I wasn't talking about you specifically saying something about it, I was just noting in general since some historians argue how certain emperors and empresses were legitimate based on that decleration alone.

I don't remember reading anywhere that historians thought Claudius was not a legitimate emperor. Why would they? Based on lineage and his age, he was the logical person no matter how you look at it.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

She had ability to make others pay her just for meeting her and taking her to opera.

LoL.

Real life shows that for a female who is young, beautiful and extremely smart, it's rather easy to sleep up to the top instead of working in a company. Survival of the fittest, that's all.

The means are wrong when the ends are wrong.