SM1 - Sid challenge

[Smart]

I don't think that we can raze any city, when AI starts with 18 free units.
The way to win is: build many EW's, get first leader on defence in walled town. Build EW army for pillage. Get second leader, and build army of swordsman. Then conquer our continent

 

[Whomp]

A few things I would disagree

One is the use of the whip. When needed the whip can be useful but in AW those 20 turns are painful to overcome economically. You can see their direction before it happens and if necessary whip.

The research order is baffling to me. One the one hand I can't see beating the Sid AI without the GLib but without offensive weapons I can't see survival. With that said I'd think WC is critical....then things get fuzzy.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I admit that I've never (ever) explored the whip and the disturbing idiots, and it could've been one of the life/death decisions that made this loss. I take it you mean alpha when you say writing, and I agree that we need to think twice about the techs.

One point I don't agree on however is the importance of catapults, which you don't seem to stress enough. Defensive shot archers are semi-worthless, they'll hit about 1/3 shot and won't be used to the full offensive potential of their 2 attack one way or the other. Catapults are more reliable and can take offensive shots, making them MUCH more powerful.

An alternative to consider is the civ itself: Sumeria has gruesome EW's, and the AGR trait speaks for itself. However, picking the techs is also very important, and we don't have the luxury of building too many granaries.

That being said, venturing out of Sumeria, we need to think about Bronze first and foremost: SCI civ. Then, all of alpha (if we have it, cats are closer), masonry, WC and pots have potential: COM, SEA, IND, MIL, EXP & AGR. I'll flush EXP, Russia has no good early UU to save the trait. Greece, Korea, China, Germany and Sumeria left. Among these, EW's and Hops shine up from the pack.

So let me suggest greece. Not AGR, but that will only matter to on-river towns, since we won't build granaries. Alpha is a costy tech and we'll have it, so we're one step closer to catapults. IMO cats+warriors are as good, if not better, than archers for game-entry trench wars.

Oh and Chasquis are a PITA, so if we could get the rivals among England, Portugal, Spain, India, France ... it'd be awesome

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

On the tech order, Mas >> WC >> Math >> IW (3 billion makes iron more likely than horses, no? ), and then horses if we're ironless, literature if we're good.

 

[Own]

Here's my stab at it. Smarts game plan except I went WC first then masonry, but it didn't matter. I sent an elite EW to pillage furs, travelling along hills to avoid combat from archers and forests to avoid combat with warriors. He now should just fortify on the hill to scare workers from getting out of London to reconnect the furst and other stuff. I would suggest settler NW next by that jungly river, then build up archers, raze the SW city and build on the hill by the wheat.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Noob question: if there was iron under the hill EW, would england have it connected ? Does our presence there disrupts ressources like it disrupts citizen work?

 

[Own]

No, it does not. i wondered this a while ago, and tested it, and no, it doesn't. But we can pillage it, the EW still won't get attacked like an army if it's on a hill unfortified.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

For the record, I've been lucky on start generation; I'll post some when I've got more time.

 

[Smart]

Good start, Own, but why you didn't moved the settler to hill

 

[Own]

I don't know, maybe I should have. I think for the better city locations.

Btw, the reason for the overly cautious play is I met them so early I had to build 4 EW before a settler.

 

[zerksees]

Yikes game over already?

If we are picking a different civ we should start with alphabet and go for the Great Library. It would be a lot easier in the long run if we did not have to research all our own techs - if we survuve that long.

 

[Own]

if we survuve that long.

big if there. Cheap enkidu's are much better than the hoplite for many reasons, also the sumers are agri.

 

[nerovats]

Had a feeling this was gona happen. Immortals are, well, imortal.

Will try to find some time to roll some starts as well. Normally I don't like handpicking opponents as it seems like cheating, but a sid AW game will more then make up or the cheat.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

We won't be building granaries early, so IMO AGR isn't such a big deal. And like zerksees pointed out, we can grab 3-4 techs and go TGL right then. And once TGL has expired, the AI is crumbling under unit costs (overseas) or is under control (home) (assuming we build TGL, we survived, so stuff should be decent).

 

[Smart]

I will generate a few starts tomorrow, because of handpicked opponents and Ur, which was founded on grassland instead of hill.
I hope that all "bad" opponents will start on other continent, and if I will see that somebody like Persia is our neighbour, I will try next start.

Good idea about pillager elite EW, Own. In what case AI will not attack him? As I see, you had pillaged wines near Nottingham, and they are on grassland

 

[nerovats]

Got a decent start already.
Greeks 70% continents, wet, temp, old, no barbs, facing Egypt, America and Japan.
Choose Greece for defence hoplite in walled city on hill is 6 defence.



View attachment 109640

 

[Smart]

Hmm... One hoplite (defence 6.75) isn't better then 3 EW's with defences 4.5*3 = 13,5
I'm sure, that we can't build GLib in non-archipelago map

 

[nerovats]

Hoplites cost 20 shields. I don't think you can add defensive points like that. There's also unit cost, and survival odds. EW will lose quite often to attackers with strength 4, hoplites will not.

 

[Own]

@Smart- About pillaging the furs, it was a bit of a gamble, but nobody attacked me. I think maybe they still don't get attacked by archers on grassland and don't get attacked by swords on hills. Anyway, that guy should be there forever stopping fur connection. A luxuryless civ will hire lots of clowns, hurting their production and hampering research.

Edit: the hill didn't really matter. By the time they get swords (if they have iron) we'll have swords too, and maybe even math, and will no longer need to stay in Ur defending.

 

[Whomp]

Is the plan to each give a start? I like the idea of hops and Nero's start looks good.