Snap UK General Election

[Arakhor]

"Pretend Leavers"? So, the Remainers are no longer even a thing now or what?

Why is it dishonest? I don't recall it ever missold to the general public, unlike so much of the referendum campaign slogans.

 

[Hrothbern]

From: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...would-swap-free-movement-for-eu-market-access

"In a poll conducted by YouGov three weeks after the general election, 1,600 adults were asked how important they thought it was to reduce immigration from the EU.
Framed as an isolated issue, the study confirmed that public opinion is still deeply divided a year on from the Brexit referendum: 72% of leave voters rated immigration either as very important or the most important issue in the talks, and 74% of remain voters said the opposite, ranking it less important or not important at all.

When asked to consider free movement as a trade-off for single market access – a principle described last week as “indivisible” by EU’s chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier – British voters appear far more pragmatic and united.
Leave voters would be evenly split if the government tried to keep full access to the single market in exchange for allowing a version of free movement that limited welfare benefits for new arrivals. Across the country as a whole, twice as many voters would be satisfied with this option than not, even though it goes no further than the deal struck by David Cameron before the referendum".

The poll shows a clear gap between the government position on how to implement Brexit and the opinion of both the leavers as all the people.

When you read the full article with the opinion of the people on all subjects, the whole Brexit as picked up by the UKIP and the Tories falls apart.

 

[Kyriakos]

^What would "free movement" mean? Equal working rights as well? (ie as before?)

 

[Arakhor]

If you want a bit of legal conspiracy in your life, how about that Article 50 hasn't actually been triggered yet?

We also have the Financial Times noting just how painfully underprepared anyone in Britain is for this whole Brexit lark and, worse yet, seems to be making no effort to mitigate this.

 

[aelf]

Funny thing I've observed about Brexiters from the UK is that, aside from those who are blunt about hating immigrants, they can never give a coherent argument for why they support Brexit. They usually evade the question or resort to baiting their opponents instead of responding to any challenge intellectually.

 

[Takhisis]

British supermarkets are now buying more British meat, dairy products, fruit and veg, which is in turn helping to save British farming from going under (dairy especially) because of the fall in Sterling. My dad is a recently retired agronomist (google it), who still gets the gossip from the agricultural world and the general consensus is they are more optimistic now due to the fall in the pound. This rarely if ever gets covered in the media though, a more stable or growing agricultural industry. A lower value pound is no disaster, and it'll develop an export economy over time for goods and services. Many analysts (including Deutsche Bank) were saying the pound was over-valued and the current range is better a fit for the UK/Sterling.

Yes, the UK's currency has long been kept at a value higher than advisable because of the country's role as an international money-laundering centre.

Now, about the agricultural world… how will you get people out on the fields, so that they actually perform the labour required? How will you get people, full stop?

 

[Kyriakos]

Ehm, Tony says it is possible that Corbyn becomes pm (no s, Tony), but it would be disastrous for the country - oh, only because they already have brexit, though, honest!)

 

[really]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40627328
At the start of yesterday's negotiations:
Brexit Secretary David Davis has called on both sides in the negotiations on the UK's departure from the European Union to "get down to business".

He returned to London an hour later.

 

[Hrothbern]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40627328
At the start of yesterday's negotiations:
Brexit Secretary David Davis has called on both sides in the negotiations on the UK's departure from the European Union to "get down to business".

He returned to London an hour later.

You can see that in two ways:
1. He is "too important" to do the actual work
2. The people doing the actual work are happy he is not around, because he is only a disturbing factor to get on

 

[Kyriakos]

Their's is not to wonder why.

 

[Colon]

A lower value pound is no disaster, and it'll develop an export economy over time for goods and services.

No. The whole economic benefit from a devaluation exactly comes from a *temporary* boost to exports. In time the competitive advantage is removed away again due to higher inflation. There's been plenty of the inflation but very little of the export boost.
It's a nice that a few farmers have been finding it easier to sell their wares, but that doesn't outweight the real decline in wages higher inflation has caused to millions of British workers.

 

[Borachio]

Interesting comparison I heard today between Tony Blair and Emmanuel Macron.

Tony Blair took office when 41 under New Labour - proclaimed to be centrist left.
Macron took office when 39 under En Marche! - a new party formed by himself, said to be neither right nor left.

Macron would seem to be the superior product. But it's early days.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Funny thing I've observed about Brexiters from the UK is that, aside from those who are blunt about hating immigrants, they can never give a coherent argument for why they support Brexit. They usually evade the question or resort to baiting their opponents instead of responding to any challenge intellectually.

I don't regard

hating immigrants

as a

coherent argument

at all.

It would seem that the word

coherent

means something quite different in your country or universe.

 

[Arakhor]

He's hardly the only one in this thread to employ baffling uses of English, eh Edward?

 

[Colon]

Yes, the UK's currency has long been kept at a value higher than advisable because of the country's role as an international money-laundering centre.

Firstly, the currency has not been "kept" overvalued, because the British Pound floats freely. It has been since 1992 and as far as I'm aware the BoE hasn't made any interventions since then to either push up or push down the Pound. (maybe during a crisis, like 2009, but certainly not as a regular policy)
Second, the structure of country's economy (in which you're probably massively overestimating the contribution of money laundering in the UK, but that's another discussion) has got nothing to do with whether its currency is overvalued. Or undervalued, for that matter. A country's economy activities could consist entirely of cow dung and it'd still be possible to have an overvalued currency. I also don't see what benefit having a overvalued currency would have for money launderers.

 

[Lexicus]

Funny thing I've observed about Brexiters from the UK is that, aside from those who are blunt about hating immigrants, they can never give a coherent argument for why they support Brexit. They usually evade the question or resort to baiting their opponents instead of responding to any challenge intellectually.

Or fall back on the classic "it's My Opinion and therefore beyond reproach or criticism"

 

[Borachio]

I don't regard as a at all.

It would seem that the word means something quite different in your country or universe.

Well, it made sense to me.

"Why did you vote for Brexit?"
"Because I hate immigrants and I want the UK to have firmer control of its borders than it does in the EU."

Seems a fairly coherent argument to me.

What's wrong with it? Aside from the fact that apparently you and I don't agree with it.

 

[Yeekim]

Firstly, the currency has not been "kept" overvalued, because the British Pound floats freely. It has been since 1992 and as far as I'm aware the BoE hasn't made any interventions since then to either push up or push down the Pound. (maybe during a crisis, like 2009, but certainly not as a regular policy)
Second, the structure of country's economy (in which you're probably massively overestimating the contribution of money laundering in the UK, but that's another discussion) has got nothing to do with whether its currency is overvalued. Or undervalued, for that matter. A country's economy activities could consist entirely of cow dung and it'd still be possible to have an overvalued currency. I also don't see what benefit having a overvalued currency would have for money launderers.

What would cause a free-floating currency to be "overvalued", if not the structure of country's economy?
The way I understood it, Takhisis was making an argument that higher-than-normal/unwelcome appreciation of pound is a natural result of London being a global hub of finance industry/financial services.

 

[Colon]

What would cause a free-floating currency to be "overvalued", if not the structure of country's economy?
The way I understood it, Takhisis was making an argument that higher-than-normal/unwelcome appreciation of pound is a natural result of London being a global hub of finance industry/financial services.

Firstly, judgements on the valuation of a currency are not facts, they're opinions. Financial analysts can get such judgements wrong. Perhaps the GBP wasn't overvalued. Who knows it was really undervalued.
Secondly, arguing a currency is overvalued because of the economic structure of a country is a contradiction. Let's say for the sake of argument that money laundering makes up a significant portion of the capital flows into the UK. The currency appreciating in response would then simply be a response to real transactions taking place. It's like saying a company's stock price is overvalued because it owns a gold mine. And if the currency's value drops because the money laundering is moving elsewhere then that's just a correct response to changing economic conditions.
Also, if you're arguing that the GBP was overvalued and its plunge was a correction bringing it a proper value, then you're also arguing that there was no response by the financial markets to the possible prospects of the UK leaving the EU's single market and customs union. Highly inconceivable.

 

[aelf]

Or fall back on the classic "it's My Opinion and therefore beyond reproach or criticism"

The most they can manage is saying something about Brussels' diktat. And I still haven't heard anything concrete despite my previous post being addressed by a Leaver.