Strategy Discussion and Guides

[Minus3Pop]

It is still possible to found Catholicism with Ethiopia via the Egyptian conquest in Paragon. That is, to start as Egypt, milk the land as much as you can and to delete all units as Ethiopia spawns. I even managed to fully research Theology without using the priest to bulb and make him build the holy shrine in Aksum. What I did:

- Settle your Egyptian capital 1N of start to access the heat and copper 2E, which will be useful as Ethiopia to counter the damned barbs later.
- Worker first then followed by 5 warriors ASAP (I whipped the last one). 5 is very important because you will have to declare to pass through Jerusalem territory to rush Babylon. If you build 4, the archers will attack you and you will lose 3. Build 5 and they won't attack you at all.
- Send 3 warriors to attack Babylon (there is a small window of time where they will send out their troops leaving a single warrior to defend the city with a worker upgrading their good tiles). Send 2 warriors back to your capital ( I deleted one so I didn't have to pay maintenance).
- KEEP Babylon. Yes you will pay some maintenance but it is worth it as the city will easily bring in more commerce than the 5 commerce you will pay in maintenance and civic upkeep. In my game, I got a worker from capturing Babylon (they hadn't founded their 2nd city when I conquered Babylon) and I sent him back to Egypt to upgrade the land. I didn't have to build one in Egypt which allowed me to grow my capital while building a monument for the priest slot.
- In Babylon, immediately build a worker to upgrade the tiles (don't whip!) and grow to size 4 or 5 and pump out settlers. In my game I put some hammers in the Sphinx and built 2 settlers and a worker which I later sent back to Egypt. This helps Niwt-Rsst focus on wonders, growth and buildings (never built a settler and only a worker at the start).
- You will lose Babylon at some (civilization respawn) point so don't focus on buildings just make sure you pop those 2 settlers for settling Alexandria and that city south of your capital to grab all the flood plains, the ivory and the gold mine.
- Build order in your capital: worker, 5x warrior, monument, pyramids, hanging gardens, temple of Artemis. This is the core. No exceptions. Add in some warriors in between to keep your city happy. Then focus on normal buildings. By the time Ethiopia spawned I had built a barracks, granary, library and aqueduct in the city. Alexandria had a granary and a library built. The last city near the Ethiopian civ had a granary built in it.
- Research order: Mysticism, Masonry, Pottery, Polytheism, AH, writing, up to you. Focus on population and maximum cottage growth. When I conquered with Ethiopia I got theology before turn 240 (if I remember correctly I got it at turn 234 235 without bulbs).
- Settle your GPs in your capital (you will have 2, Gprophets are the best for production and that +10 gold from both is a godsend).
- Delete all your units when the Ethiopians spawn and pillage your horse resource (you may want to delete your workers too).
- You will need some luck here. Hope that Greece doesn't get TOA and hope for come luck with the medjay barb spawns. Watch out for the automatic Greece DOW and you should be fine.
- Don't whip wonders, only units and maybe some buildings if you won't have time to complete them before Ethiopia spawns.
- With Ethiopia I like to build Mogadishiu on the horses with my 2nd settler.

Good luck to you all.

 

[ales_]

I consider it cheating.

 

[ezzlar]

How do you deal with Russia? Their UP is annoying. They have soo many cities.

If I capture the cities I get big time research penalty. If I raze them I get a huge stability penalty. And starving out the cities to lower raze penalty is not feasible with their UP.

 

[strijder20]

Capture their core and release it after their collapse.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Cuirassier. You can always get those before Seljuks spawn if you want. China can simply be a civ with no match. Mongols won't be a bigger threat than early barbs.

I don't like 1700 scenario. Maybe more balanced but not fun enough than 600 AD.

I'm curious about this too.

Sometimes you will fight Mongolia on their spawn, but the first turn protection is active.
I'm sure you've noticed this before too, but when you kill a unit the first turn a civ spawns, that unit has a 50% chance of respawning on the tile.

 

[ezzlar]

Is the chance of war on spawn affected by size and tech level of my SoD awaiting their arrival? Most games when I have prepared well I start at peace with the Mongols (as China).

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Is the chance of war on spawn affected by size and tech level of my SoD awaiting their arrival? Most games when I have prepared well I start at peace with the Mongols (as China).

I think so, but in my last game, I had a large stack of Cavs, Rifles and Cannons waiting at their start and they spawned automatically at war.
Not relying on confirmation bias here, so apart from that aberration, I think your assessment may be correct.

 

[Daedwartin]

Well then, someone should probably test this hypothesis.

 

[Hightower]

So Maya UHV.

Getting calendar before 600 AD was not difficult, but the rest of them are.

Second UHV is a dead end as I see it. I dont understand how you can build Temple of Kukulkan before 900 AD, not to mention you need to research code of laws first. You need stone for it because there are no production. Problem is that stone is under of independent city that has two Holkans on start as you have. You cant build more military units because you need library for first UHV so they will have more troops than you. So when you need stone they have huge number of warriors and you have only starting units. Killing barbarians for exp does not work either because Holkan is an archer unit so you cant get city raider promotion. You also cant build ball court and barracks because otherwise you fail first UHV.

Third UHV is possible because you have -40% research cost, all tech are very cheap. So you need first to build a galley and then research optics, upgrade galley into caravel and sail into east.

Quibble -- Galleys don't upgrade into Caravels. Triremes do.

The Maya UHV has always been the hardest one in the game, I think.

 

[phoenix_sprite]

Can anything be done about the penalty from 'City Territory'? I feel like the natural border growth of cities actually harm more than anything.

 

[Leoreth]

Are you on 1.11?

 

[phoenix_sprite]

I think so, by the looks of things.

 

[Dareal Doc Gold]

Can someone help me with the English UHV please? I'm playing at normal speed and on the Heir difficulty level.

 

[deadeye943]

Anyone have a good Polynesian UHV strategy?

 

[citis]

Anyone have a good Polynesian UHV strategy?

See the DoC challenge thread, there are some strategies there.

 

[Tigranes]

Can someone help me with the English UHV please? I'm playing at normal speed and on the Heir difficulty level.

After that nerfing of Britania new strategy is due. No Crab, no Dye. And less base health. I think even tech rate got effectively nerfed with recent changes.

 

[Malchar]

I've been playing Babylonia recently, and I've come up with a fun and pretty reliable method for winning the historical victory. I'm playing on regent difficulty, normal speed, and I am using the most recent SVN version 1.13. Forgive me if this has been documented already, but I have not read through the whole thread.

Stage One

Research techs in this order:
Mysticism
Masonry
Polytheism

Settle in place and then start building these units in order:
Worker
Granary
Asharittu Bowman

1. Send your first warrior to meet China and grab any goodie huts that you see. Once you find the Chinese city, just fortify your warrior here to keep him safe.
2. When your worker spawns, upgrade the sheep tile immediately, then upgrade stone and marble as soon as possible. Due to the river being there, you shouldn't need roads to connect the resources.
3. The bowman should finish around the same time as polytheism. Leave the bowman at Babilu for happiness. Change civics to slavery and pantheon, then move into stage two.
*. If you're having trouble with such a small military, you can replace the granary with two more bowmen.

Stage Two

Research techs in this order:
Priesthood
Monarchy
Code of Laws

Build in this order:
Ziggurat
Hanging Gardens
The Oracle
Library
Settler
military units as needed

1. Build at least one cottage on the flood plains near Babilu. This will be useful on and off while the city is growing. Next, build a road extending two tiles to the west of Babilu. This will give you a trade route to the Phoenicians when they spawn. After that, build a road from Babilu to the deer resource which is south of the Caspian Sea.
2. Once Babilu grows to size 5, stop growth so that you don't go over your happiness cap when you get the bonus population from the Hanging Gardens.
3. When you build The Oracle, take writing for free. You can use slavery to build it faster if you need to. Sometimes China will beat you to it anyway, and you'll have to restart. Once you get writing, make open borders with China and bring your warrior west of Changan to find India. You should be able to set up the warrior on a tile where you can see both civs at once.
4. When the library is finished, start running two scientists.
5. When you research monarchy, trade it to Phoenicia for mining, fishing, and hunting. (If you bulbed mathematics, you should subsequently trade it to them for bronze working.)
6. When your settler is done you should found a city west of the deer resource. Switch into dynasticism and let Babilu grow into your new happiness cap. You should still be running two scientists though.
7. Now for military, prefer to build axemen first, then catapults, then spearmen, depending on what you have access to. The bowmen are not good now because we need to prepare for the Persian immortals. If you use slavery, be mindful of the second historical goal.
8. Sometimes Persia will spawn with Code of Laws and beat you to it. Use your military stack to get revenge, then restart because you will certainly die to their might.

*. If you need more military, you can replace the ziggurat and/or Hanging Gardens with more bowmen.
**. If you get a scientist great person, use it to bulb mathematics. However, if this would found Confucianism, you should wait until you have dynasticism in order to offset the unhappiness.

Hopefully you can finish code of laws for the win before you die to Persia and/or Rome!

If you win, you can continue the game and see how long you can last. I recommend researching to get crossbows. You can hook up the iron near your second city. You can also build a smokehouse in Babilu to get more health from the sheep and deer. Depending on how things turn out, you can also potentially upgrade the wheat resource and build an aqueduct as well.

You can also experiment with building the Temple of Artemis instead of the ziggurat and the Hanging Gardens. You can build the Hanging Gardens (and a bunch of other wonders) later instead of the settler or some of the military. In one of my games, neither Greece nor Persia immediately declared war on me, and I survived until 920AD.

 

[citis]

I've been playing Babylonia recently, and I've come up with a fun and pretty reliable method for winning the historical victory. I'm playing on regent difficulty, normal speed, and I am using the most recent SVN version 1.13. Forgive me if this has been documented already, but I have not read through the whole thread.

Stage One

Research techs in this order:
Mysticism
Masonry
Polytheism

Settle in place and then start building these units in order:
Worker
Granary
Asharittu Bowman

1. Send your first warrior to meet China and grab any goodie huts that you see. Once you find the Chinese city, just fortify your warrior here to keep him safe.
2. When your worker spawns, upgrade the sheep tile immediately, then upgrade stone and marble as soon as possible. Due to the river being there, you shouldn't need roads to connect the resources.
3. The bowman should finish around the same time as polytheism. Leave the bowman at Babilu for happiness. Change civics to slavery and pantheon, then move into stage two.
*. If you're having trouble with such a small military, you can replace the granary with two more bowmen.

Stage Two

Research techs in this order:
Priesthood
Monarchy
Code of Laws

Build in this order:
Ziggurat
Hanging Gardens
The Oracle
Library
Settler
military units as needed

1. Build at least one cottage on the flood plains near Babilu. This will be useful on and off while the city is growing. Next, build a road extending two tiles to the west of Babilu. This will give you a trade route to the Phoenicians when they spawn. After that, build a road from Babilu to the deer resource which is south of the Caspian Sea.
2. Once Babilu grows to size 5, stop growth so that you don't go over your happiness cap when you get the bonus population from the Hanging Gardens.
3. When you build The Oracle, take writing for free. You can use slavery to build it faster if you need to. Sometimes China will beat you to it anyway, and you'll have to restart. Once you get writing, make open borders with China and bring your warrior west of Changan to find India. You should be able to set up the warrior on a tile where you can see both civs at once.
4. When the library is finished, start running two scientists.
5. When you research monarchy, trade it to Phoenicia for mining, fishing, and hunting. (If you bulbed mathematics, you should subsequently trade it to them for bronze working.)
6. When your settler is done you should found a city west of the deer resource. Switch into dynasticism and let Babilu grow into your new happiness cap. You should still be running two scientists though.
7. Now for military, prefer to build axemen first, then catapults, then spearmen, depending on what you have access to. The bowmen are not good now because we need to prepare for the Persian immortals. If you use slavery, be mindful of the second historical goal.
8. Sometimes Persia will spawn with Code of Laws and beat you to it. Use your military stack to get revenge, then restart because you will certainly die to their might.

*. If you need more military, you can replace the ziggurat and/or Hanging Gardens with more bowmen.
**. If you get a scientist great person, use it to bulb mathematics. However, if this would found Confucianism, you should wait until you have dynasticism in order to offset the unhappiness.

Hopefully you can finish code of laws for the win before you die to Persia and/or Rome!

If you win, you can continue the game and see how long you can last. I recommend researching to get crossbows. You can hook up the iron near your second city. You can also build a smokehouse in Babilu to get more health from the sheep and deer. Depending on how things turn out, you can also potentially upgrade the wheat resource and build an aqueduct as well.

You can also experiment with building the Temple of Artemis instead of the ziggurat and the Hanging Gardens. You can build the Hanging Gardens (and a bunch of other wonders) later instead of the settler or some of the military. In one of my games, neither Greece nor Persia immediately declared war on me, and I survived until 920AD.

I think you don't need all this mess. After worker prioritize library and after pasture cottage everything. (On second though I used this before the health overhaul, so maybe sheep won't give any health bonus...)

 

[2015]

As long as both Greece and Persia dont declare war on you, you're fine. I played different games where different civs declared war on me on their spawn (either Greece or Persia) and survived until the 1800s AD. Of course, Babylon becomes horrible after 500 AD because it's impossible to keep up with techs and eventually someone will declare on you but it's still possible to survive.

Then again, I don't really play for UHVs. Just for survival/URVs/normal victories.

 

[citis]

As long as both Greece and Persia dont declare war on you, you're fine. I played different games where different civs declared war on me on their spawn (either Greece or Persia) and survived until the 1800s AD. Of course, Babylon becomes horrible after 500 AD because it's impossible to keep up with techs and eventually someone will declare on you but it's still possible to survive.

Then again, I don't really play for UHVs. Just for survival/URVs/normal victories.

It works even if both Greece and Persia declare war. Greece won't attack you and Persia willwait some turns before attack, giving you time to train enough bowmen. However, I only tried UHV, Babylonia isn't for later games, all regions around Babilu flip to someone else.