Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
America first.
Student takeover at Evergreen State College
- Thread starter civver_764
- Start date
America first.
If I cannot convince *you* to help someone who desperately needs help, when we share the same language, the same cultural allusions, and when we're both surrounded by a Christian culture ... then what hope do I have to convince someone in Japan?
civver_764
Deity
Eh, not from what I've seen. They don't want to mistreat people, they just want to be left alone as white people. It's identity politics for white people.
Well interestingly I am more captivated by the Zen Buddhism of Japan than the Christianity of America, so you may be on to something here.
At least you admit there's a double standard, I guess. Gotta say, it doesn't really inspire any righteous indignation on my part.
Oh, there's absolutely a double-standard. And a huge part of that is that we expect better of ourselves than we do of others.
I started ignoring you when you claimed Germany wasn't seeking legislation to fine social media companies for not removing "hateful" posts, despite a simple Google search proving otherwise.
Ajidica
High Quality Person
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2006
- Messages
- 22,482
Given what Germans did within living memory, I think their government has plenty of reason to want to be particularly vigilant in clamping down on extremist and hateful comments.
Given what Germans did within living memory, I think their government has plenty of reason to want to be particularly vigilant in clamping down on extremist and hateful comments.
Plenty of reason, but not good reason. Germany starts doing this and I wouldn't be surprised if social media networks start pulling out of Germany. And seeing as social media has become a vital part of social and political discourse, taking action against social media can be interpreted as an attack on free speech.
There have been so many examples of crazy activists on college campuses in America recently. Evergreen seems like the most extreme example but there are a lot.
Kimberly Pierce who directed "Boys Don't Cry" was shouted down, cursed at and prevented from speaking at a university because she didn't cast a transgender person in the lead role of her movie, which was about a transgender person. This is despite the fact the movie dates back about over 15 years way before transgender issues were commonly talked about, and how many transgender actors were there at that time? The protestors also claimed the movie glorified violence against transgender people. This was a movie from a lesbian who was out back when that carried more of a risk than today but none of that mattered to the extremists.
Then, there was Erika Christakis at Yale who wrote a thoughtful essay, which acknowledged people's concerns, over Halloween costumes deemed offensive. She was forced out of her job by a mob of students who attacked her husband for defending her. They surrounded him and were screaming at him about how they felt unsafe. Over an essay emailed about Halloween costumes.
At another college, student were disciplined for taking part in a tequila party and wearing sombreros.
Then at another college the Latinx (what do these people do when they actually speak Spanish) group sent out a statement chastising white women for wearing hoop earrings. While I do agree hoop earrings are probably more common among black and Latin women I don't think they've ever been considered exclusive to those groups. It's like black people chastising whites for smoking menthol cigarettes.
Then at another college the author of the Bell Curve and a professor were attacked, the professor had to go to the hospital when they were literally attacked and the students attacked their vehicle and pursued them even after they left the lecture hall.
These are all just events over the last year. Students at American universities seem to be becoming increasingly radicalized and instead of pushing for greater freedom and freedom of speech are pushing for more censorship with an increasingly infantile attitude.
Kimberly Pierce who directed "Boys Don't Cry" was shouted down, cursed at and prevented from speaking at a university because she didn't cast a transgender person in the lead role of her movie, which was about a transgender person. This is despite the fact the movie dates back about over 15 years way before transgender issues were commonly talked about, and how many transgender actors were there at that time? The protestors also claimed the movie glorified violence against transgender people. This was a movie from a lesbian who was out back when that carried more of a risk than today but none of that mattered to the extremists.
Then, there was Erika Christakis at Yale who wrote a thoughtful essay, which acknowledged people's concerns, over Halloween costumes deemed offensive. She was forced out of her job by a mob of students who attacked her husband for defending her. They surrounded him and were screaming at him about how they felt unsafe. Over an essay emailed about Halloween costumes.
At another college, student were disciplined for taking part in a tequila party and wearing sombreros.
Then at another college the Latinx (what do these people do when they actually speak Spanish) group sent out a statement chastising white women for wearing hoop earrings. While I do agree hoop earrings are probably more common among black and Latin women I don't think they've ever been considered exclusive to those groups. It's like black people chastising whites for smoking menthol cigarettes.
Then at another college the author of the Bell Curve and a professor were attacked, the professor had to go to the hospital when they were literally attacked and the students attacked their vehicle and pursued them even after they left the lecture hall.
These are all just events over the last year. Students at American universities seem to be becoming increasingly radicalized and instead of pushing for greater freedom and freedom of speech are pushing for more censorship with an increasingly infantile attitude.
Ajidica
High Quality Person
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2006
- Messages
- 22,482
I'm sure your commitment to allowing extremist and hateful comments is comforting to the untold millions murdered by the Nazis.
The best way to stop it from happening again is to allow them to express their opinions. The more you try to suppress them, the more they can play the victim and actually draw more people to their cause. The election of Trump is proof of this.
Ajidica
High Quality Person
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2006
- Messages
- 22,482
The only way to stop Nazis is to protect their ability to call for the murder of Jews.
Great logic there. The Weimar Republic didn't "ban the Nazis" and look what happened there. The Nazis banned the KPD, but I didn't see some sort of pro-KPD movement inside the Third Reich.
So far, "let the Nazis speak" has a pretty poor record of preventing Nazis from seizing power, whereas "ban the Nazis" has a proven track record of success.
The Nazis didn't get support because they were "the victim". Playing the victim was anathema to the entire Nazi ideology.
How has Trump ever been persecuted? The media has gone out of their way to appear "balanced" and "hear both sides of the story" whenever he says something totally abhorrent to basic decency and our shared values.
GoodEnoughForMe
n.m.s.s.
On the contrary, it has an excellent record of working. To say otherwise is to claim ignorance of post-WWII history. Neo-Nazi movements have been active in Western nations pretty much since the end of war and yet not a single one of those movements has managed to seize power again. I mean, in the entire 93-year history of Nazism, they have only managed to hold real power for 12 of those years. That's not a very good track record.
Source?
Not him. You really didn't pay much attention to the election did you?
The students haven't really justified their temper tantrum. Instead they've just shown the far right's response to it, which is disturbing but looks like they brought it on themselves.
Ajidica
High Quality Person
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2006
- Messages
- 22,482
France and Germany have laws against Holocaust denial. While the Netherlands and the UK have incitement and hate laws which have seen crypto-Nazis like Nick Griffin and Geert Wilders charged. The Marine Le Pen went out of her way to try and pretend the FN wasn't fully of racists and Nazis. AfD is barely polling in double digits. The BNP/EDL are limited to writing racist letters to local newspapers. Not a bad track record.
Really, who was persecuted? Hillary had to bend over backwards in the ensuing media kerfuffle when she had the basic observational skills to call the people who show up to voting booths wearing t-shirts with the slogans "Put a White Back in the White House" or "Tree. Rope. Journalist. Some Assembly Required" deplorable.
If you are going to insist on making ridiculous claims about Hillary being persecuted, then I'm not going to continue this conversation with you.
Ajidica
High Quality Person
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2006
- Messages
- 22,482
Hey, you are the one who brought up the concept of persecution in the 2016 election. Not me. It is hardly my fault you are being vague about who was persecuted this election.
To help move this debate along, I'd like to point out that Commodore is not necessarily claiming actual persecution. Whether the persecution is actually occurring, in an objective sense, is irrelevant to the point. He is instead alluding to the subjective perception of persecution among whites, more specifically whites living non-coastal/non-urban areas, and even more specifically white males, and finally more specifically rust-belt white males.
So asking him to state who was persecuted, is missing the point. You should instead ask who felt persecuted... and I've answered that.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
You literally said that people were jailed for critisizing the German government. I will do you the favor and quote your own post.
Either you post evidence of people getting fined and/or jailed for speaking out against the government or you simply admit that you lied.
It is an essential part of every democracy that people can critisize the government at any point in time. It is not an essential part of democracy that people may publicly call for the murder of refugees. Hate speech and speaking out against the government are two completely different things that can be defined legally.
People are getting fined for hatespeech, even on social media. No one doubted that. No one said otherwise. Germany is trying to seek legislation against social media companies. No one ever doubted that.
I never touched on those topics in my post, why even bring them up?
Stop moving the goalpoast, stop dodging. It's honestly embarrassing at this point.
You are also wrong on Germany being a leftist government, as I and Valessa already showed. There are more Germans on this board and I'd wager most agree. Our government isn't exactly "rightist", it might be "liberal" if you go by the American definition, but it is not at all "leftist".
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
I actually agree with your point, which is the worst thing about this debate. I don't think anyone should be silenced, quite the opposite actually, if anything there should be a platform for "alt right", "nat soc", "left wing extremists", "sjw" to engage with everyone else and each other. Opposite opinions have to be taken seriously, even if they are not based in anything substantial.
It's just that you really, genuinely did not know what you were talking about when you railed off about Germany. Saying untrue things to substantiate a point is just not right.
Classic /pol/
Last edited:
