SUL3: Sullla's Training Day Game

[Sullla]

Originally posted by Erik Mesoy
Between turns: CENSORED. Those censored French have censored managed to censored build Sun Tzu's Art of War. Oh well, we can just capture it.

In between turns, the french grant us another elite knight. also, the persians complete Leos.
10:Kiev builds a very expansive market place, 278 shields wasted.

Well, I don't want to say "I told you so" but...

Originally posted by Sullla
Expect to lose either Sistine or Sun Tzu (or even both) to cascade though.

I will look over the turn tonight, seeing as how I'll be moving all my stuff out of my room at college over the next few hours and sending it back home.

Sulla - out of game
Architect <<< on deck
Erik Mesoy
Imhotep <<< UP NOW

 

[Ihmotep]

Gots it..post on Saturday at the earliest

 

[Ihmotep]

well I will when I get the sav file

 

[Sullla]

Gaah! Yeah, we do seem to be missing a save file. Erik, if you would?

 

[Erik Mesoy]

I DID attach the save file- lets try again.

 

[Ihmotep]

ok NOW got it

 

[Sullla]

Comments for Erik Mesoy:

First thing that sticks out is the lack of a defender in Kharkov. This city is our one in the far east, wedged up against China. With it sitting there undefended, we are just asking to be attacked by another civ; the AI loves to take unprotected cities. Just look at what happened in Zed's training day game recently is you don't believe me. Get a defender there immiedately if we don't want to find ourselves fighting a 2 front war.

I don't agree with the production choices. Why is St. Petersburg and Minsk building courthouses? They both have very little corruption and are "core cities." Now I would understand if we were doing a big infrastructure push, but at the moment we are fighting a WAR, and these cities should be building military units. Ditto for Tbilisi and Smolensk, which are building temples to very little effect. If we want to increase happiness in Smolensk, we should build a marketplace, which will give us 3 extra smilies compared to the one we would get for a temple.

Let me make the military point with a little more emphasis. We currently have 12 knights, many of which are hurt. That is not enough to guard the cities we currently have captured, much less continue the offensive. Yet I find that we have a mere 4 knights in production, and none of them set to complete in fewer than 5 turns. We need many more military units; both pikes to defend our newly captured territories and knights to continue the attack. This is NOT the time to build city improvements. Every city with a barracks should probably be building military units so that France is conquered as soon as possible and we can get back to building infrastructure. The shorter a war lasts, the better.

The conquered cities are all high risks for a culture flip. Starve them all without exception down to size 1, so they are repopulated with Russian and not French citizens. We have enough culture that we don't have to raze cities, but be careful. Trying to pillage the iron from France is a good call, and should be attempted. In the western part of the front, we are VERY thin at the moment, so be careful and send more over there.

Research is all wrong. We are currently going at a pace where we will research the next tech at the same time as the AI civs. Very bad move. We should either be trying to get a tech lead or be going 0 science and buying into techs. In this case, with horsemen still to be upgraded, we definitely want a min science strategy. The AI is not going to leave us in the dust on Regent, and we can easily buy back into the lead after this war ends. My very hearty recommendation is to turn the science off and use the money we get for upgrades and rushing libraries in the captured cities.

We will have to up the luxury rate to 20% soon to deal with war weariness. The next player should be aware of this and monitor our cities to avoid them all going into disorder at once. Above all, do not do something silly like revolting to Monarchy. We can safely ride this out in republic with our 5 luxuries, which will go to 6 when we get French furs.

Pay attention to terrain when attacking, don't attack a city unless we have sufficient force to take it (why was 1 knight assaulting Paris?) and don't overextend what our forces can hold. We are close to that at the moment. The next 10 turns need to be handled with care.

And sometime soon, one of you needs to take 9 turns instead of 10 so we even out the turns properly (we are ending on 460AD, 560AD instead of 550; someone took 11 in the past by accident).

Sulla - out of game
Architect <<< on deck
Erik Mesoy
Imhotep <<< UP NOW

 

[LKendter]

Originally posted by Sullla
Comments for Erik Mesoy:

First thing that sticks out is the lack of a defender in Kharkov. This city is our one in the far east, wedged up against China. With it sitting there undefended, we are just asking to be attacked by another civ; the AI loves to take unprotected cities.

Sulla is very correct on this point.
In on the early LK games as Japan, India suddenly turns on me - despite the fact we were allies witn a RoP.
I replayed the same turn as a test - kept the city with several units - no war!

A city in range of ANY civ's units with ZERO defenders is an invitation to war.

 

[Ihmotep]

The Egyptian Commander's 3rd reign

Pre turn:
Vetoes:
Minsk Courthouse - Swordsman
Kharkov Library - Spearman
Vladivostok Courthouse - Pikeman
Chitagong Library - Barracks

I left St. Petersburg since changing it would have cost lots of shields..I left Smolensk temple. I moved a spearman from Rostov heading towards Kharkov. I dropped Science to 10% giving us +128. Astrakhan builds a library and starts a worker because its too long to build anything else.

Palace expansion - 2nd Story added

- War news: France attacks Riga with a 4/4 Knight killing our 4/4 horseman there.
- Reistance in Tours and Avignon ends.

------------

1 - 570AD
I raise luxury tax to 20% making us +106.

St. Petersburg Courthouse - Knight
Minsk Swordsman - Swordsman
Novgorod Temple - Knight
Dacca Expands

War news:
- Our Elite Knight attacks a French Vet knight and kills him without losing 1 hp.
- Move injured knights to Riga to heal.
- Start a Stack of Death near Paris.

-------------

2 - 580AD
Smolensk Temple - Swordsman
Dacca Worker - Pikeman

War news:
Paris Conquest
Round 1: 4/5 Knight vs Fr. 3/4 Pikeman. Loss
Round 2: 4/5 Knight vs Fr. 3/3 Pike. WIN
Round 3: 4/4 Knight vs Fr. 3/3 Pike. Loss but take Pike down to 1

-------------

3 - 590AD
Minsk Swordsman - Pike

Paris Conquest -- Part II
Round 4: 4/4 Knight vs Fr. 3/3 Pike. Loss. Once again to the last hp
Round 5: 4/5 Knight vs Fr. 3/3 Pikeman. Another loss...not getting the good rolls....
Round 6: 4/5 Knight vs Fr. 1/3 Pikeman. Win..big whoop.

-------------

4 - 600AD
Sevastopol Courthouse - Swordsman
Sverdlovsk Knight - Knight
Vladivostok Pikeman - Pikeman
Grozny Temple - Walls

Palace Expands: 3rd Story
Riga Expands
French Request Audiance - No thanks

War News:
Paris: The road to victory
Round 7: 4/5 Knight vs 4/4 Pike. Loss
Round 8: 4/4 Knight vs 2/4 Pike. WIN!! PROMOTION TO ELITE!!!!

SUN TZU'S!!!!!!!!

Awww...it was worth it man. I starve Paris and Attack a wandering 3/3 Warrior with a 3/4 knight and win. I hurry a temple in Grozny and a courthouse in Sevastopol. see above.

Then the bastard french take Astrakhan......

(TURNS 5-9 on the way along with save game!!)

 

[Ihmotep]

5 - 610 AD
Kiev Knight - Knight
Minsk Pike - Pike
Smolensk Sword - Sword
Tblisi Knight - Knight
Riga Pike - Pike

Moscow Expands
Palace Expansion - Right Wing

BASTARD CHINESE GET SISTENE!!! Forced to change production to Cathedral...had 6 turns left..what can I say Sullla...when your right your right


--------------------
6 - 620AD
War News:
Quest of Astrakahn
Round 1: 4/4 Knight vs Fr. 3/3 Spearman. We lose?
Round 2: 5/5 Knight vs Fr. 1/3 Spearman. We win. No promotion
Round 3: 4/4 Knight vs Fr. 1/3 Longbowman. Win and take city


--------------
7 - 630AD

War Weariness kicking in. 2 cities revolt despite 20% luxury. I raise it to 30%.
Moscow Cathedral - Knight
Minsk Pike - Pike

War News:
- 4/4 Knight kills 2/3 Warrior
- ****!!!!! French 4/4 Knight takes out our 4/4 Sword and Astrakhan is theirs again.....

----------------

8 - 640AD
War News
Quest for Astrakhan -- Part II
Round 1: 4/5 Knight vs Fr. 4/4 Knight. Lose
Round 2: 4/4 Knight vs Fr. 1/4 Knight. City is ours again. I fortify 2 Knights.

---------

9 - 650AD
Grozny Expands
Resistance in Paris Ends
Palace Expansion - Left Wing

St. Petersburg Knight - Worker
Smolensk Sword - Sword
Odessa Knight - Knight


Well we have captured Paris with Sun Tzu's in it, recaptured one of our cities (2 times) but have suffered a bit in the knight department....A couple cities are rioting even with a 30% Luxury tax. We have a lone spear defending Kharkov but its better than nothing I suppose..I got workers building a few roads connecting the infrastructure and thats about it.

I'll be waiting for the critique (heh..hope I got rid of all the weed )

 

[Sullla]

I'll do a full critique tomorrow. Looking over your write-up, two things spring to my eye immediately:

1) Your attacks against Paris took several turns because you weren't sending enough of a decisive force against it. I would never send 3 knights against a capitol defended by pikemen; waiting 2 turns for reinforcements and then attacking would have captured the city at the same time, but without losses. Never send attacks in piecemeal fashion; that's what the AI does. Attack swiftly and decisively with overwhelming force wherever possible.

2) Yep, someone else completed Sistine. I saw that one coming. I'm getting pretty good at calling the completion time of wonders. In my latest SP game, I estimated I would miss Sistine's in a city by 5 turns. It was completed elsewhere when I had 7 turns left. I wasn't really disappointed though because I was expecting it. I may post a picture from that game, a 5 City Challenge on Monarch, just because I'm having so much fun with it. I'm just destroying the 7 AI civs in every single aspect of the game with only my 5 cities - looks like I need to move up to Emperor now.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Sometimes a courthouse can be useful close to the capital...
14-->15 shields. Knights 5-->4 turns. Swordsmen in 2 turns. I guess I was thinking Warlord, where i have some leisure to builds up, cos the AI doesnt have that many attacking troops.

Oh, and I started a 5cc too. So far, I have conquered the romans. with swrodsmen. I got lucky and had control over 2 iron and 1 horse... *crosses fingers and prays for Iron Works* I will get another horse when 2 of my cities hit 1k culture.

 

[Sullla]

Comments for Imhotep:

I notice that there are some soldiers in less than ideal positions laying around our cities. Minsk, for example, has three pikemen that could be used down at the front to garrison new conquests. A swordsman is sitting in Sverdlovsk to no purpose that I can see. Vladivostok has two pikes in it - one should head east to defend Rostov, which is well within range of a French attack and is defended only by a regular warrior. There is a horseman in Riga that can be upgraded to a knight and used to attack. Smoklensk build a swordsman? By the time it gets there, the war will be over! Cities far away from the front should be building knights. Swordsmen also cannot upgrade further, so we don't want a lot of them.

Kharkov and Yakutsk have unhappiness problems; in this case, I would recommend hiring entertainers since they are very corrupt cities at the moment. Odessa is going to revolt next turn as well, so hire an entertainer there too. Paris and Tours should both be getting starved down to size 1 to eliminate the chance for a flip. Paris is especially risky at the moment because it is in disorder - change them into tax collectors and starve that city! At the moment, there is no need to go above 30% luxuries. The cities that are revolting are corrupt ones, not core ones. Only raise the lux taxury again if our major cities are about to revolt; outlying colonies can get entertainers to deal with the problem.

Be careful with attacking Orleans; the current attack set up will be across a river (+25% defense) against a size 7 city (+50% defense), making those fortified pikemen have an effective defense of 6.

There's no reason to go even 10% science; instead, go to 0% and change one of the workers in a very corrupt city into a scientist. This will add 30g/turn to our income. We have tons of excess resources and luxuries - anyone think to trade this stuff? Oh wait - we still aren't connected to any other civs. I forget how slow the game is on Regent somtimes... Make it a priority to build some roads and connect to other civs so we can trade our excess stuff to them for big $$.

We've got lots of money piling up, so we should use it to rush cultural buildings in our new conquests. Libraries are cheapest for us as a scientific civ, and should cost about 150g each. Our income can almost afford that per turn at 0% science (123/turn), so don't be afraid to rush stuff in newly conquered areas. Avignon and Tours should get libraries just to extend our area of control, and keep the French off the roads in the area. Paris should get one too, although Paris is a very high flip risk. Starve it down to 1!

Most importantly, keep piling on the attacks and France is finished. It should take about 25 more turns to finish them by my estimate, but their fate is sealed. They will be gone by 900AD.

Sulla - out of game
Architect <<< UP NOW
Erik Mesoy <<< on deck
Imhotep

 

[Ihmotep]

The Swordsman sitting in the middle of nowhere were being moved to the front, if I recall. I didn't think about the pikes....

 

[Architect]

650AD (0) - I veto all core city production of any unit non-knight. I wake all three pikemen in Minisk and start moving them towards the french front. I upgrade the spearman in svelodsk to pikeman and move out the swordsman. If anything he can back fill defense on another city closer to France. I wake up the swordsman in Moscov and move him towards france too. WHAT IS THE DEAL WITH WORKERS AND THE DESERT. THERE ARE SO MANY BETTER THINGS TO IMPROVE THAN THIS. I shuttle a whole bunch of units out of useless defensive positions within our cities and move them towards France. I also starve paris converting 4 citizens to entertainers and 1 to a scientist. We are running 0% science now and 20% luxury with 153gpt income. I am able to "rush" two temples and then switch them back to knights getting the knights in 1 turn and saving about 50gp, another advantage of using libraries for culture as temples are 10 shields smaller than a knight an many of our cities make 10 shields. I don't like have all those troops exposed neer orleans... One lone knight dies to a french knight, they have sent one around behind.

660AD (1) - Get an elite knight killing the french knight. Move knights into mountains around Orleans for assualt next turn. Banking is discovered and passed around.

670AD (2) - Move many troops to the front. 5 knights are poised to take orleans from the mountains. 4 pikeman defending, we kill 3, all knights are injured. Going to pull veteran knight from Astrakan to try and finish off last pikeman, leaving only a 2/5 elite knight guarding it. Orleans falls. Chartres is the new captiol of France. All our ROP expire and no one wants to renegotiate.

680AD (3) - Took a risk and sent a swordsman and knight to rouen. It falls. I'm preparing an offense against chartres now. China discovers Astronomy.

690AD (4) - Moving against Charters in two turns it falls.

700AD (5) - One more turn and Chartres meets with 8 knights. Troops are poised to take Marseilles. I have seen nothing from the French as far as offensive troops go in 2 turns.

710AD (6) - We lose one knight taking chartres. Genoble is the new French Capitol. 5 more are now poised to take Poitiers. Here's hoping our elite knights generate a leader. We lose an elite knight after taking a pikeman down to 1hp, he lost five in a row. We take Marseilles.

720AD (7) - Poiters falls. Toulouse Falls. Our road connects to the persia allowing us to trade with india, persia, bablyon, and china now. I switch novgorod and sverdlovsk to aqueducts as the war effort this far north can start to wind down. The remaining core cities switch to either marketplaces or unis. France is still not willing to give up is remaining cities for peace so we press on. Dyes, Ivory, and Gems for spices, Astronomy, 113 gold, and 2gpt from the chinese. I take it. For Dyes and Gems we get Banking, 33 gold and 1gpt from the Persians. I start research Economics because I love Adam's Smith.

730AD (8) - Troops are moving into position to take Cherbourg, Amiens, and Rheims. We attack and take Besancon.

740AD (9) - Rheims falls. I decide to bring a few more forces before taking Cherbourg and Amiens next turn. If all the battles go in our favor, france will be eliminated next turn.

750AD (10) - Bayonne Falls. Dijon Falls. Cherbourg Falls. Amiens is destoryed as it is only size 1. We FAIL to take Gernoble with 5 knights and a swordsman. I single regular pikeman kills 3 knights and a swordsman and promotes to elite. I actually died in the battle. I'm so pissed I didn't get the honor of eliminating the French. I request the next leader rename Gernoble it in my honor. Don't rush taking this city. Bring as many troops in to get a good kill and attack from the hill. Man, that was one awesome campaign and to have it end this way really sucks. Oh well. I've started a settler in Tours to fill in the gap left by Amiens. I trade furs to the persians for 16 gpt, 40gold and their map. China is offering 160gp for furs but I'll leave that to the next leader. I rush marketplaces in St. Petersburg and Smolensk. Don't forget to check St. Petersburg next turn because it doesn't need anymore food and there are forest that can be worked for sheilds but I moved them off this turn to get more commerce. There are 3 workers near that should be used to mine the mountains of St.Petersburg. Our cities are going to be very happy as we now have 7 luxuries! We are up from 150 gold a turn to 193 gold a turn. Next leader needs to decide where FP goes. Paris looks like a good spot, but the dumb AI workers have it worked all wrong so we will need to bring workers down to improve the terrain properly since we didn't get a leader. We may want to bump research up now. One of the core cities should start a palace to wonder switch to Adams.

Troops (after Gernoble) should be shuttled towards the east and north so they are ready to take on someone else or defend.

750AD

 

[Architect]

Just a little picture...

 

[Erik Mesoy]

*CLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAP!!*

A Most Glorious Campaign!

Shame that it ended that way... : cry :

Architect, you must PUNISH THOSE EVIL FRENCH! Rename Grenoble to Imhotep's Grave.

 

[Architect]

Erik,

I finished the campaign and died trying to take Gernoble not Imhotep.

You are up now Erik.

So you can choose to name it Imhotep's Grave, but then Architect IV would haunt you forever...

 

[Sullla]

Impressive again Architect! After your last turn in RDB12, I hardly think I need to be giving you advice anymore!

 

[Ihmotep]

I dug up my VERY first chieftan game, babylon. about 1 or 2 months ago I had won the game...but now i look at it and all I see is a sad sad noob...

- 18 count them: 18 cities have 6 or more excess food even to the point of 15 excess!!!

- it is 2140 AD, yet less than 50% of my empire has railroads. There are even a few spots without roads!!!!

- Pollution is rampant. I counted about a 3X3 area just filled with pollution.

- Many cities off my continent are undefended or defended with a few infantry

- I'm at war with Japan on a different continent, yet there are no transports heading that way


I played it for about 12 turns then just said **** it and deleted it...it was beyond help