sophie
Break My Heart
I'd say it was rather the germs, the slavery, and the colonialism that did that.
[RD] Surrender Summit
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I'd say it was rather the germs, the slavery, and the colonialism that did that.
Berzerker
Deity
the slavers and colonists were carrying guns
Don't know if this was discussed at the summit, but there was another 'leak' to the press yesterday.
Russia proposed US to help in post-war rebuilding of Syria and repatriation of refugees.
The proposal was sent through military channels and originally discussed during Gerasimov-Dunford talks:
The proposal allegedly received "icy reception" in Washington.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-seeks-us-help-to-rebuild-syria-idUSKBN1KO2JP
Russia proposed US to help in post-war rebuilding of Syria and repatriation of refugees.
The proposal was sent through military channels and originally discussed during Gerasimov-Dunford talks:
The proposal allegedly received "icy reception" in Washington.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-seeks-us-help-to-rebuild-syria-idUSKBN1KO2JP
Don't know if this was discussed at the summit, but there was another 'leak' to the press yesterday.
Russia proposed US to help in post-war rebuilding of Syria and repatriation of refugees.
The proposal was sent through military channels and originally discussed during Gerasimov-Dunford talks:
The proposal allegedly received "icy reception" in Washington.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-seeks-us-help-to-rebuild-syria-idUSKBN1KO2JP
Interesting
A part of that article:
“The proposal argues that the Syrian regime lacks the equipment, fuel, other material, and funding needed to rebuild the country in order to accept refugee returns,” according to the memo, which specified that the proposal related to Syrian government-held areas of the country"
As I stated a couple of times in other posts: refugees are one of the tools of the geopolitical toolbox.
I said "interesting" because neither Russia or the US will have a direct disadvantage of the 5 million Syrian refugees floating around in other countries in the area.
And I guess BTW that financial aid will also go to the 6 million Syrian refugees still within Syria, being only a disadvantage to those 6 million humans and Assad.
My cynical take:
Russia proposes something, the US adds conditions. => the total equation a dead lock of "we agree not to agree" and BOTH can wash their hands in innocense at UN meetings.
The 5 million refugees in misery and a geopolitical pressure on neighboring countries and the EU, feeding populism, and therefore political disorder.
There may be also political reason for the proposal (except already mentioned diplomatical and humanitarian factors)
Since Assad is Russian ally and he is interested in rebuilding the infrastructure and returning people back home, Russia also has indirect interest in helping him and strengthening positions of Syrian government.
The offer to the US is more like "since we both participate in destruction of the country, you may also want to help us in its restoration".
By the way, there was apparently a similar offer to Macron, which was at least partially accepted. France already sent humanitarian aid in Damascus using Russian transport planes.
Verbose
Deity
Polling among the expat refugee population at the moment indicates there might be surprisingly few takers of offers to return to Syria. Only about 1/3 of the population of Syria remains in its prewar locations. 1/3 is displaced inside Syria, 1/3 has fled the country. Of the third outside Syria the vast majority as Sunnis who clearly oppose Assad and his government. A majority of those might in fact forego returning to Syria, unless Assad himself is out of the equation.
Assad otoh recently gave an interview indicating the Russian troops will need to stay indefinitely to provide security.
I guess if Russia is willing to continue to be Assad's muscle, Syria might eventually be more or less cobbled together again, with about 2/3 of its prewar population. If Russia goes home, the bets would seem to be off again.
The place is seriously broken and Assad was always the problem, not the solution.
Assad otoh recently gave an interview indicating the Russian troops will need to stay indefinitely to provide security.
I guess if Russia is willing to continue to be Assad's muscle, Syria might eventually be more or less cobbled together again, with about 2/3 of its prewar population. If Russia goes home, the bets would seem to be off again.
The place is seriously broken and Assad was always the problem, not the solution.
If this polling was conducted in Europe or Canada, I would be surprised if many people wanted to return now, especially knowing that the war is not over yet. I would expect many people to apply for political asylum in order to stay in developed countries. But majority of refugees are staying in neighboring countries, such as Jordan and Turkey and I doubt most of them would like to stay in refugee camps if they were given possibility to return back home.
Also opposition to Assad is in most cases not religious. There are mostly pro-Assad religious groups such as Alawites (11% of population) and arguably, Christians (12%), but they are relatively small.
He also has lots of supporters among Sunni Muslims including people on high government positions.
Russia neither can nor wants to be Assad's muscle. It's functions in Syria is mostly limited to conducting airstrikes, supplying and training Syrian military. There were some special force operations during Palmyra and Aleppo battles, but now it's not required anymore. Also, a number of peaceful agreements with rebels recently were done with Russian mediation. I don't know all details of agreements, but it seems rebels are more willing to negotiate peace or retreat in case if the territory they were holding won't be taken over by Assad military immediately, instead Russian military police will maintain order during transition period.
Last month a large territory in Southern Syria returned under government control. FSA in most cases agreed to withdraw without a fight, but there are still pockets of ISIS resistance in rural areas.
Berzerker
Deity
from yahoo news... Unrest in Iran recently, sanctions resume soon.
Ha! Somebody's been reading "Guns, Germs and Steel"
sophie
Break My Heart
Ha! Somebody's been reading "Guns, Germs and Steel"
Pfft. Jared Diamond didn't invent "germs killing Native Americans was catastrophic", nor did I say anything about domesticates.
War in Syria is already quite over. The Syrian refugees in the west are economical migrants, they are not willing to return doesnt matter who will be in charge. Refugees in neighbouring countries would probably like to have some guarantees to not be persecuted, then they will return.
There is the question of Turkish occupation and Kurdish autonomy. The level of western appeasement here is worrying. It just makes Erdogan more daring.
There is the question of Turkish occupation and Kurdish autonomy. The level of western appeasement here is worrying. It just makes Erdogan more daring.
The West cannot do much about all this.
And I can imagine USA demanding Erdogan to stop illegal occupation of Syria - that would be beyond ridiculous
So.. after all Trump surrendered to the Congress and not to Putin.
As it should be as general principle
Stil.....
I am looking with mixed feelings on this latest development.
What bothers me is the automatism of the escalation... some law of 1991 converts humanitarian considerations automatically in economical trade war steps.
The Iran sanctions showing that these can have a cascading effect to other economies than only US-Iran as well.
Is that not a bit too uncanny similar to all the treaties in place just before WW1 ?
Not that I expect a real devastating military war coming from this.....
But if you consider miltary cold wars and wars as means to detoriate the economy of your opponents, then all out trade wars are just the same without visible blood.
I have nothing against using trade in geopolitics: from withholding win-win effects, to pressurising sanctions.
But if you mostly hit the ordinary people, and those ordinary people have no practical chance to replace the government by a better one, stable as well....
What are we doing ?
And why is in the latest set of trade wars the UN bypassed or made lame, so structurally and blatantly, by big players ?
Berzerker
Deity
Congress (the GOP) surrendered to Trump, they're letting him use a national security loophole to wage a trade war
Lexicus
Deity
@Gori the Grey @metalhead @Cutlass @Sommerswerd
I think all of you at one point or another have expressed the view that Trump is a "Russian agent" or some such.
Can you explain this to me a little? The reality seems to be that Trump is largely continuing the hostile policy of the Obama years, with some evidence that Trump has actually taken a more aggressive stance toward Russia.
Most of the arguments for Trump being a Manchurian candidate seem to revolve around aesthetics - he won't condemn this, he won't "take a strong stand" on that, he was insufficiently hostile to Putin when they met, he threw the intelligence services under the bus with the stupid crap he said.
About the only substantive thing I can find where the administration did something that was pro-Russia was the reported foot-dragging on the round of sanctions passed early in Trump's presidency that were retaliation for Russia's interference in the election.
So, when it is claimed that Trump is some kind of puppet of Putin, what exactly is meant by it?
I think all of you at one point or another have expressed the view that Trump is a "Russian agent" or some such.
Can you explain this to me a little? The reality seems to be that Trump is largely continuing the hostile policy of the Obama years, with some evidence that Trump has actually taken a more aggressive stance toward Russia.
Most of the arguments for Trump being a Manchurian candidate seem to revolve around aesthetics - he won't condemn this, he won't "take a strong stand" on that, he was insufficiently hostile to Putin when they met, he threw the intelligence services under the bus with the stupid crap he said.
About the only substantive thing I can find where the administration did something that was pro-Russia was the reported foot-dragging on the round of sanctions passed early in Trump's presidency that were retaliation for Russia's interference in the election.
So, when it is claimed that Trump is some kind of puppet of Putin, what exactly is meant by it?
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
Trump is too stupid to make a useful puppet?
Lexicus
Deity
I think it goes well beyond that.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/04/13/trumps-russia-policy-is-better-than-obamas/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/04/13/trumps-russia-policy-is-better-than-obamas/
Well I have noticed that US made sanctions against 2 top Turkish officials. Maybe will Turkey impose real sanctions on themselves like Russia didThe West cannot do much about all this.
And I can imagine USA demanding Erdogan to stop illegal occupation of Syria - that would be beyond ridiculous
But really, I know that US forces operate in the area, but Erdogan threatened them to attack them, constantly bulling not only US but also other more wealthy countries. Russia treats with US with more respect than Turkey with its allies. Is Trump just impressed by bullies?
These sanctions will only achieve the same result as sanctions against Russia didMaybe will Turkey impose real sanctions on themselves like Russia did
With Turkey results actually may be worse, because they can kick US troops out of their territory, or leave NATO.
This would be interesting, but unfortunately I think that Turkey will just jail some other innocent people to make a point. Honestly I would like to see Turkey kicked out of NATO. With allies like that who does need enemies.These sanctions will only achieve the same result as sanctions against Russia did
With Turkey results actually may be worse, because they can kick US troops out of their territory, or leave NATO.
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