The Absolute Best Reason to Vote for Romney

[GhostWriter16]

This is a great example of the trend we were talking about in the other thread. Your age and upbringing in a fairly (by past standards) liberal environment tolerant of gays has worked you over. While you are not entirely 'liberal' in your stance, you are clearly not the traditional 'conservative' in it either.

Pretty soon, the conservative position will embrace gay lifestyles and gay marriage as frankly, all the old people die off.

Remember, in the 50's, interracial marriage was seen exactly the same (and even argued against in biblical terms) as gay marriage is today. Enough of the people who had those beliefs are dead now that the conversation has shifted forward.

Honestly, and this is purely a religious comment and isn't meant as a political comment in the slightest, but the arguments against interracial relationships from the Bible are incredibly weak while the arguments against gay relationships are pretty strong.

A lot of you guys have, correctly, stated that there are plenty of sins the Bible talks about as often as, if not more than, homosexuality. I think there's a good lesson there. We should NEVER assume someone else's sin is more serious than our own. Even though I, admittedly, fall into it (Judgmentalism) all the time. Its without a doubt a character flaw and not something to be proud of.

That said, the Bible does still have a low opinion of homosexuality, at least taken as a whole, while it doesn't say a thing about interracial relationships that doesn't make more sense to view as being about interreligious relationships. In fact, the book of Ruth is literally ABOUT an interracial relationship

Oh, and the chosen people were middle eastern, not white. Just figured I'd throw that one out there

I don't think the anti-SSM sentiment will die in my lifetime. The pro-SSM elements in the country will, without a doubt, win the debate. Those against it will become a much smaller minority.

That said, Evangelicalism will always be a force. A weaker one, sure, but I don't see it dying altogether. There are enough young people I know that are even more "Anti-gay" than I am...

Too bad!

Tell ya what, once the gay tantrum is over, once the haters shut up about gay, nobody will refer to those two issues together.

Until then please just get over it, most of the rest of OT aren't equatists.

Huh?

 

[Leoreth]

And I don't know what the Netherlands' laws are, but America is already more pro-choice than most of Europe is.

Don't worry, the Netherlands have death panels instead.

 

[LucyDuke]

Nobody is trying to pretend that those two issues are of equal importance to you so please spare us the tldr rants about how they're not the same thing every single time someone uses a couple of examples of crap some conservatives throw tantrums about.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Except that wasn't even what I was addressing. I was addressing someone who was complaining about those policies of Obama's.

 

[LucyDuke]

Nobody is trying to pretend that those two issues are of equal importance to you so please spare us the tldr rants about how they're not the same thing every single time someone uses a couple of examples of crap some conservatives throw tantrums about "policies of Obama's".

Better?

 

[GhostWriter16]

Fair enough.

 

[bathsheba666]

Not all liberal policies are bad, just that the issue of homosexuality and human life are ones that are clearly defined in the Bible that going against them shows serious lack of judgement.

From what I recall of the bible, the major serious errors of judgements are all god's.

Epic fail.


Regarding the thread. It's debatable whether satire is at its best when those mocked have no idea that is so, or when they have just a dim background awareness.

 

[Leoreth]

I for one appreciate that you made a difference between these issues. And honestly, everyone who lumps both together to score cheap points in one debate is intellectually dishonest in my opinion.

Both controversies share that the bible is used by one side to support their arguments, but that's it. I think there is nothing but Christian moralism, "sin" and biblical definitions to the anti-SSM side, and I personally think this has no place in politics, but you really don't need any of that to be anti-abortion.

As much as I like to point out the flaws of using the bible to support legislation, that doesn't actually mean you have to become pro-choice.

 

[GhostWriter16]

I for one appreciate that you made a difference between these issues. And honestly, everyone who lumps both together to score cheap points in one debate is intellectually dishonest in my opinion.

Both controversies share that the bible is used by one side to support their arguments, but that's it. I think there is nothing but Christian moralism, "sin" and biblical definitions to the anti-SSM side, and I personally think this has no place in politics, but you really don't need any of that to be anti-abortion.

As much as I like to point out the flaws of using the bible to support legislation, that doesn't actually mean you have to become pro-choice.

Out of interest of intellectual honesty, I'm not even really in favor of SSM, I'm still (very marginally) against it, but I think its a distraction from the real issues and I realize that when both are lumped together, it just makes it look like the "anti-choice" side is also trivial and has little merit to it.

For someone who believes abortion is murder, that's literally one of, if not the, most important issues in politics. That we sometimes allign with social conservatives on the issue, even if their motives are weak, doesn't mean we really agree with them.

SSM, on the other hand, is almost completely a moral argument. There are a couple of elements that differ it from some other moral questions, but its still fundamentally a moral question.

Thanks for the support

 

[LucyDuke]

Complaining about actual comparisons is fine. Complaining when they're both referred to as examples of "policies of Obama's" or whatever is overzealous.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Its stiill honestly a cheap talking point.

Honestly, its not really CH that I'm ticked off at, its the entire Republican Party for pretending to be "pro-life" while consistently refusing to do anything about it and yet consistently trying to do things about SSM. Its a broader trend I'm kind of ticked off at moreso than anything.

I apologize to CH if I came across as particularly personal. Wasn't trying to.

 

[LucyDuke]

It isn't necessarily a talking point at all. Marriage equality and abortion. Abortion and capital punishment. Capital punishment and gun control. Gun control and immigration. Immigration and abortion. Abortion and drug prohibition. Drug prohibition and capital punishment. Capital punishment and affirmative action. Affirmative action and fracking. Fracking and healthcare. Healthcare and gun control. Gun control and marriage equality. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. They don't have to have anything to do with each other other than being examples of things one can have an opinion about, or justify in some way, or have as parts of a platform, or blah blah blah whatever.

 

[MobBoss]

I freely ignore anyone who says that you need to be a Trinitarian to be a Christian, even if billions of people would agree with them and that leaves VRCW and I in a minority of two.

Thats fine...people all over the world ignore fact and truth every day of the week, so thats nothing new.

By his fruit shall we know if they are a Christian or not. So many times he has gone against clear teachings of Jesus. Surely someone who follows Jesus is a Christian and hence the term. He fails many times by his actions.

So you believe his stance is a sin, even though he and others do not? Who made you the pope?

And since when does being a sinner make one not a Christian?

Actually, i'm going to agree with the guy who doesnt like me here. I have no reason to not take Obama at his word that he is indeed a Christian, albeit perhaps he doesnt always make choices that are seen as traditionally correct Christian ones.

Everyone sins and Jesus himself said no one but the Father is good. Kinda puts all of us in a single demograph where sin is concerned doesnt it?

Because the comments of one voter is the reason to vote for a man who publicly declared he would not care for a high portion of the population.

Yup, that would indeed be better than seeing Madonna naked at her age. You understand my OP exactly.

 

[GhostWriter16]

But you did say: "And frankly, I don't think a genuine Christian can be as pro-abortion as he is..". By which you surely mean pro-choice.

Yeah, but AS was the key word. Obama seems to literally think you can kill the child immediately before it is born...

 

[LucyDuke]

What a BS claim. Why make things up when you can just as well crap on the truth without sacrificing your credibility?

 

[Cutlass]

Yeah, but AS was the key word. Obama seems to literally think you can kill the child immediately before it is born...

That's called lying through your teeth. And it exactly why the anti-abortion side is so immoral and unethical that they cannot possibly be on the side of good. And so must lose.

 

[LucyDuke]

It's not fair to damn the whole group based on the lies of a few. You condemn lying to support abortion rights, don't you? Damn the liars.

 

[GhostWriter16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial-Birth_Abortion_Ban_Act

Obama's "State's rights" arguments on not voting for this were BS considering that he never cared about that before, and Ron Paul, who does, voted for this law.

Obama absolutely supports the right to abort, almost any time, if not any time, in the pregnancy.

Its hardly a lie. Its a fact and its right in front of you.

 

[LucyDuke]

Yeah, you're just demonstrating a lack of understanding of the practices and laws involved if you're trying to argue that that vote demonstrated support of late-term abortion.

 

[JollyRoger]

Obama was like the most pro-choice person in the country in the US senate.

So for at least one issue, we got the most libertarian guy possible as President. That should make you happy.