The Absolute Best Reason to Vote for Romney

[hobbsyoyo]

Apparently there never has been even one "proper" Christian president.

The Pope?

 

[Leoreth]

I doubt the Pope would advocate selling your daughters into slavery or executing people for wearing garments made of different threads.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

lol, is that what makes a proper Christian president?

 

[Leoreth]

According to classical_hero, you have to follow the bible to be a proper Christian (the specific examples refer to the video I've posted).

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yeah but, no but, yeah but, then Jesus came and said old them old laws, well not all of them, but many of them, well most of them are now old laws, and I'm the new thing you know, so those old laws don't apply any more you see, except those laws which apply to people lezzing out, because we still won't have any of that.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

By his fruit shall we know if they are a Christian or not. So many times he has gone against clear teachings of Jesus. Surely someone who follows Jesus is a Christian and hence the term. He fails many times by his actions.

Sheesh, I follow Jesus' teachings a lot better than some self-professed Christians!

Not all liberal policies are bad, just that the issue of homosexuality and human life are ones that are clearly defined in the Bible that going against them shows serious lack of judgement.

Based on the previous post I quoted, am I to assume that you think Obama has gone against the teachings of Jesus by not making homosexuality illegal (and enacting the applicable capital punishment laws to "punish" those who happen to be gay/lesbian)? Am I to assume you think Obama has gone against the teachings of Jesus for not doing the same regarding abortion?

Newsflash: It's not Obama's job to worry about the teachings of Jesus. It's his job to worry about the well-being of the people of the United States. ALL the people of the United States, INCLUDING women who don't want to be forced to birth unwanted babies, forced to continue a pregnancy that could kill them (the women), or forced to bear babies that have basically NO chance at a viable life. Also included in Obama's mandate is to do his best to ensure the well-being of ALL the people, regardless of whether they're gay, lesbian, straight, some combination of these, or none at all. He is not only not required to take religion into account regarding these issues, the U.S. constitution prohibits him from taking religion into account regarding these issues.

And that's as it should be. It was a Catholic Prime Minister who made it possible for gay marriage to become part of Canadian law. Even though he was threatened with excommunication, the Right Honourable Paul Martin set his own personal beliefs aside for the good of the country. So did many other MPs. And that's as it should be, too.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That's a good point. It seems CH's position is that any politician who doesn't tyrannically enforce Christianity cannot be Christian.

Maybe he should really, really pay attention to this man.


Link to video.

 

[AlpsStranger]

Classical Hero is a Dominionist and a Christofascist. Why be surprised every single time he does it? It's not new, people.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

To be right feels new every time.

 

[LucyDuke]

Wow, someone really missed the point of the thread.

I think someone maybe missed the quiet truth of it.

 

[_random_]

(btw, NOT unitarian universalists!!!)

Trinitarian universalism is better.

 

[JollyRoger]

Have you heard of an eye for and eye and tooth for a tooth? If you have then you are referring to punishment happening upon those who have caused harm to an unborn child in the Bible. So much so that if the child is stillborn, i.e. dead, then death would be prescribed the individual that caused the harm. There are many other such passages that show that God refers unborn children as valid members of humanity.

Yep - they have to move from unborn to firstborn before being targeted for death by God. Nevertheless, you stipulated Obama not following the teachings of Jesus. None of that commie red text in the Bible deals with homosexuality or abortion.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Not all liberal policies are bad, just that the issue of homosexuality and human life are ones that are clearly defined in the Bible that going against them shows serious lack of judgement.

I feel the need to smack someone every time someone puts those two things in the same sentence. And I am (more or less anyway) a fellow Baptist.

Abortion is, at least according to you and I, the murder of an innocent human life, and therefore should be illegal.

Homosexuality, while a sin, does not directly harm another person, and so should really be left between the person and God. Tell them what you think by all means. Do not try to use the government to regulate their behavior. After all, you wouldn't want someone to do that to you. Golden rule.

I HATE when abortion and SSM get placed in the same "Social conservative" post when one issue is much, much bigger than the other and its not the one that most social conservatives seem to think it is.

You're halfway there, young one...

NOTE: Ron Paul is not running. As such, Gary is clearly the best Libertarian choice left. I did, in fact, prefer Ron Paul

I'm still not an anarchist though, so maybe I am only "Halfway" there

Not that I speak for CH, but yeah. Why does it so often seem to be a problem when people express a doubt over the sincerity of a politician's religious belief without an 8 page dossier of proof?

Let's face it, in 2012 you ain't gonna be elected president of the USA unless you profess some kind of Christian belief. Romney's Mormon beliefs are just passable and frankly only just, helped by the crappy contenders. This will eventually change of course, witness Obama being the first black president.

But combine this with a natural propensity of politicians to be full of it and enough circumstantial evidence to suggest Obama's faith is a tad convenient, yeah, I think he's lying.

And all the better if I want my whiskey from Camikaze.

I don't know if he's "Lying" although he might be. I think he's a tad insincere, in any event. And frankly, I don't think a genuine Christian can be as pro-abortion as he is. Yes, I'll leave that to God, ultimately, but if I had to guess, weighing everything together, I'd say that he's probably not Christian. He's certainly not Muslim, however.

I freely ignore anyone who says that you need to be a Trinitarian to be a Christian, even if billions of people would agree with them and that leaves VRCW and I in a minority of two.

What did that have to do with Obama at all? Unless he professed to being non-Trinitarian?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't know if he's "Lying" although he might be. I think he's a tad insincere, in any event. And frankly, I don't think a genuine Christian can be as pro-abortion as he is. Yes, I'll leave that to God, ultimately, but if I had to guess, weighing everything together, I'd say that he's probably not Christian.

So, a necessary criteria for being a Christian is you have to believe that life as a human person being starts at conception. No ifs or buts. Accept the Lord Jesus as your saviour, try to emulate his spiritual teachings and believing life starts at conception. (Life as defined as being a person, not just being alive)

Is that right?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I HATE when abortion and SSM get placed in the same "Social conservative" post when one issue is much, much bigger than the other and its not the one that most social conservatives seem to think it is.

This is a great example of the trend we were talking about in the other thread. Your age and upbringing in a fairly (by past standards) liberal environment tolerant of gays has worked you over. While you are not entirely 'liberal' in your stance, you are clearly not the traditional 'conservative' in it either.

Pretty soon, the conservative position will embrace gay lifestyles and gay marriage as frankly, all the old people die off.

Remember, in the 50's, interracial marriage was seen exactly the same (and even argued against in biblical terms) as gay marriage is today. Enough of the people who had those beliefs are dead now that the conversation has shifted forward.

 

[LucyDuke]

I feel the need to smack someone every time someone puts those two things in the same sentence. And I am (more or less anyway) a fellow Baptist.

Too bad!

Tell ya what, once the gay tantrum is over, once the haters shut up about gay, nobody will refer to those two issues together.

Until then please just get over it, most of the rest of OT aren't equatists.

 

[GhostWriter16]

So, a necessary criteria for being a Christian is you have to believe that life as a human person being starts at conception. No ifs or buts. Accept the Lord Jesus as your saviour, try to emulate his spiritual teachings and believing life starts at conception. (Life as defined as being a person, not just being alive)

Is that right?

Not necessarily.

First of all, I was stating an opinion. I wasn't saying "The Bible says this."

Secondly, I did not say "From conception." I said "As pro abortion as he is.

Obama was like the most pro-choice person in the country in the US senate. And I don't know what the Netherlands' laws are, but America is already more pro-choice than most of Europe is.

I think the later you go, the less likely a decent person could legitimately make a mistake.

 

[dutchfire]

@Hobbsyoyo: “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. " Max Planck

The same holds for non-scientific truths.

edit:

And I don't know what the Netherlands' laws are, but America is already more pro-choice than most of Europe is.

 

[Arakhor]

What did that have to do with Obama at all? Unless he professed to being non-Trinitarian?

CH seemed to feel that that the opinion of millions of Muslims would be important to President Obama's Christian status. I was pointing out that other people's opinions are irrelevant to one's religious beliefs (or lack thereof).

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Not necessarily.

First of all, I was stating an opinion. I wasn't saying "The Bible says this."

Secondly, I did not say "From conception." I said "As pro abortion as he is.

Obama was like the most pro-choice person in the country in the US senate. And I don't know what the Netherlands' laws are, but America is already more pro-choice than most of Europe is.

I think the later you go, the less likely a decent person could legitimately make a mistake.

But you did say: "And frankly, I don't think a genuine Christian can be as pro-abortion as he is..". By which you surely mean pro-choice.

Obama made the Netherlands seem less evil you know

He can do that. He is that great a person.