The Democratic Caliphate.

[Spirictum]

My guess is that he is going to backstab us and switch sides to them.

That isn't a smart choice, as I'm sure we will obliterate them. Also I don't think he will be happy with this statement, you know DKVM.

Be nice. While I personally believe the experience added by the stable to all mounted troops coming after it will make up for the population and hammers spent, more troops is not a bad plan, especially in a game of civ.

Exactly jackelgull. Also Qustantiniyah has a Great General, so if DKVM completes both a Stable and Barracks he will be able to make 3-Promoted Camel Archers. And the quest will give us a bonus which can be:
- Get 7 Horse Archers for free
- Promote every Mounted Unit with Sentry
- Stables give +1

So I agree with you this is a great way to enhance the whole Caliphate against the Ottomans, but I also think Makkah and Al-Quds are the prefered cities to volunteer, as Anatolia needs some buildings (Qustantiniyah was recently captured and Anqarah isn't a strong city, it lacks to get all those on those hills).


BTW, let us decide which is the best option of the quest already so I'll be able to choose it when it's done.

IMO the first option sucks. We don't need 7 old troops now, we have a really big army, and seeing our military relation with several other nations we are stronger then most.

The second option is great, I think it remains until the end, so every Mounted Unit built in the future will get the promotion for free (and Mounted Units only end when Tanks come). But the promotion is a weak one. It surely is a great promotion to have, but there is no reason to have several sentry units, its bonus don't stack in any way.

The third option is great, +1 means +1/2 free pop-point, which for a civ surrounded by desert and plains means a lot. Most of our cities stop growing because of lack of food or abundance of , instead of a limit in . But I guess only the stables built in the cities we currently have will get the bonus. I'm not sure if the effects of quests in this mod enable for all future buildings built in cities we don't have yet.

E.g. In LoR, the quest event that gives +2 for all colosseums only apply to the colosseums already built and those that you build in cities you already had by the time the quest was completed. If you found a new city after the quest is done, the +2 won't apply to a colosseum you build there.


So I don't know if I prefer the sentry or the Stable

 

[jackelgull]

Even if the effect of the stable's extra food is limited to the initially built cities, it would be worth more, at least in my opinion, than sentry promotion to all mounted units. +1 vision isn't that useful- especially when airships come into play, and there is also the fact that food is life in civ4. Hasn't that been drilled into every player? So if we are given the chance I would not choose the sentry promotion as its utility value is low.

 

[adhiraj.bose]

The food bonus seems best, though I am not as averse to getting 7 free horse archers (which we can upgrade to armored units I think) which may be useful in dealing with more immediate concerns (Turkey spawn, Mongol stacks etc).

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I also think we should choose the food bonus, and I can confirm from the one time I completed this quest in single player that that it does not apply to any stables built afterwards.

 

[Spirictum]

I also think we should choose the food bonus, and I can confirm from the one time I completed this quest in single player that that it does not apply to any stables built afterwards.

What's funny though is that on LoR this bonus only applies to cities built before the trigger of its completion, and this also includes foreign cities that you come to conquer one day. So if it's like LoR, then the Seljuq cities will get this bonus after we conquer them, opposed to the city we are going to found on Oman (that won't take the bonus because it was built afterwards).


Anyway, we still lack 1 city to complete this quest. VGL hasn't answered my PM, and DKVM stood with his denial.

I think the Caliph had the power to choose something like that if the counselors can't reach a common point. As there is no active Caliph, I think we may create a limit for a voting system where the majority of votes at the limit time will decide what to do.


IMO Makkah is the best city to do that job of the remaining cities. It's the biggest of the group and the most developed (buildingwise) city in the Caliphate. VGL was planning a production of troops, so I guess it isn't much contrary to what he wanted.

We could make another 24h limit to cast votes on which city to make the last stable. What do you guys think? The list is all cities we have except those listed on my previous post about this.

 

[DKVM]

Okay guys, I'm going through the game and now we need 2 volunteer cities. I'll list those which can't:

Already have Stables:

- Babil (Dar al-Iraq)
- Ninawa (Dar al-Iraq)
- Al-Uqsur (Dar Misr)

Already volunteered (we need 1 more):

- Tell-Hisn (Dar Misr)
- Al-Iskandariya (Dar Misr)
- Al-Quds (Dar ash-Sham)


The thing here is we got the quest, and I'm sure it's in our best interest to complete it asap. So I need cities to volunteer to build Stables asap. You'll tell me if we can whip and how. Tell-Hisn was already going for a Stable by my previous orders, and I scheduled a Stable in Al-Iskandariya which is going to be completed really soon. Sadly Abu-Simbel isn't good enough to make a stable soon.

Dar al-Iraq can't help us as his 2 cities already have Stables. Our best candidates are Anadol [Qustantiniya or Anqarah], Arab [Makkah] and ash-Sham [Al-Quds], as Zanj is still developing his land too.

I'll update this with the volunteers

I bumped the list for you Spirictum.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I volunteer As-Sur as well under the condition that we pick the option that gives +1 Food.

 

[Spirictum]

I volunteer As-Sur as well under the condition that we pick the option that gives +1 Food.

Many people didn't cast a vote, and VGL hasn't given any signal yet, I hope he didn't disappear too.

Thanks for your offer Knoedel, but I must insist that we carry on with a vote. I know we are going into VGL's domain here, but we should try to do the best for the Caliphate, and a 3 sized city isn't a nice option, it'll abuse of its development, while our capital that has almost all buildings and 9-pop with almost 10 is a great option.

If we can't agree on this, then I accept your offer, but I insist that we vote on this. Makkah will not only suffer less from the whip, but it'll become a powerful Camel Archer Training Ground, which is coherent with VGL's last orders. I won't be able to update this in the next 24h, so that's the new limit.

 

[DKVM]

I vote for food and Makkah.

 

[Imperator Knoedel]

I vote for Makkah.

 

[Manuss]

I vote for Makkah and for food.

 

[adhiraj.bose]

I vote food and Makkah.

 

[Spirictum]

Food and Makkah

~8 hours left, we may still have Al-Noob's, baseball pie's, Jackelgull's and SouthernKing's, but I think we are agreed on this.

And food it is it seems too. I hope nothing more interrupts this term so we can proceed to the next council.

 

[TheNoob]

Food and Makkah I guess

 

[baseballpie]

Food and Ankara.

Just to go against the crowd.

 

[Spirictum]

Food and Ankara.

Just to go against the crowd.

I think that Anqarah isn't an option, as DKVM owns it and he denied its use, so I can't count this. You may still vote for unassigned cities as As-Sur, Abu-Simbel, Zanzibar, Sana'a and Rabd al-Handaq.

 

[Spirictum]

Another thing we must discuss: Tech

We will discover Optics pretty soon, so we must decide on which of the other techs we will research next, we may:

Patronage (12)

Can build the Red Fort​

Philosophy (13)

Banking (14)

Can build Banks​

Gunpowder (20)

Enables Pinch Promotion
Can Train Musketmen and Bombards​

Education (22)

Can build Universities
Obsoletes University of Sankore
Advances to the Renaissance​

Printing Press (26)

Village and Town +1
Advances to the Renaissance​

Astronomy (38)

Enables on Ocean
Can build Galleon
Advances to the Renaissance​

I only listed what the techs will allow us to build alone (and would have written anything that needed any of those techs combined, but there is none). This excludes any Wonder that was already built. The number in the right is the number of expected turns to complete it.


To start this voting, I'll cast my doubt about I'll share my doubt about which to choose: Patronage or Gunpowder?.

Only Cordoba has Patronage, and only a Muslim Civ's city may build the Red Fort, so if we could snatch it pretty soon we would be able to build it before them. By now they aren't building the Red Fort, but after we are decided about Makkah (which ends in 3 hours) I'll be able to play until Optics is done and see if they start it.

Gunpowder will be completed before the Ottomans, so it could enhance our army and let us drive an easier war against them. I think we will obliterate them anyways, but if we get some bombards we will lose less units in battle.


Previously I supported we kept going to Banking, but war is imminent and a wonder is being disputed. We didn't even build a single Grocer, so it'll take some time until we may build Banks.

The rest I think are too costful or not so important right now.

I'll cast my vote later.

 

[TheNoob]

Gunpowder and then patronage

 

[DKVM]

I vote Patronage then Gunpowder.

 

[baseballpie]

To start this voting, I'll cast my doubt about Patronage or Gunpowder.

Hope I don't come across as a busybody, but to cast your doubt might not be the best English idiom in the situation. If you casted your doubt, that would likely mean that you were voicing your concern about some part of the plan or outcome. If I read it correctly, then you were saying you supported Patronage and gunpowder as options, not opposing their feasibility. Just wanted to inform you.

And, by the way, Patronage, then Astronomy.