The Epstein Files

[Angst]

EE, so i believe you're outlining why reps/his voter base are turning on him. so question on point (e); i barely ever, ever see or hear any right wingers talk reasonably about soft power. like, they definitely understand it exists and is useful, it's not that. but when trump's previous behavior as to eg the eu was going on, most of the environment around it was... supportive? it was kind of rallying around him. tariffs, bullying, threatening calls, military shows of strength, all that stuff seemed to rally his base, and i say that out of experience both anecdotically (from personal experience with right wing acquaintances) and going by assorted data.

so question is - you think this behavior of harsh showcase of force and mistreatment of allies actually is bad for his public support?

i can definitely believe you, mind you. but i still remember the environment during the last year. maybe it's one of those loyal-until-breaking-point things. that reps don't like it, but will defend it as part of the package, and with enough cracks in the dam, they turn on it. this is also very normal behavior, so wouldn't surprise me

 

[KMRblue1027]

Some of his voters for sure have turned on him; Latinos who put him over the top last year. You saw that more in NJ then anywhere else but they swung 15 points Dem basically erasing all the gains he's made since 2016 with them. Because he misdiagnosed why he won thinking it was anything but inflation. Trump's hardcore base is not enough to win an election only enough to hold about 44 Senate seats and 200ish house seats. So this could be calculated by the GOP congress to get him to ether course correct (unlikely) or 1st step towards removal (also unlikely but a bit more plausible). Otherwise they are about to get slaughtered in 2026 and they can finally see that.

 

[EnglishEdward]

@ Angst

Not being a US citizen, I don't think I can quite get inside their mindset.

However us Brits note that US people seem to be more result oriented.

In so much as Trump's blustering seemed to get results (increase in defence spending by
European members of NATO), they were quite happy for him to piss the Europeans off.

But the problem is that it is difficult to see what Trump has actually won for the USA
by his stance towards Brazil, Canada, China, Mexico, Russia and Venezuela etc.

@ KMRblue1027

I am hardly surprised when they see the heavy handedness of ICE on their communities.

 

[Lexicus]

Noam Chomsky is In The Files, big time

 

[Klaus Hergersheimer]

Trump's presidency might not make it to the end of this year.

I find this outcome highly unlikely. I think Trump sincerely wanted to release the files, could have done it, but felt like he had to be compelled into doing it so he did not look like he was caving to some partisan pressure. As his brain tends to operate differently from most people.

 

[JollyRoger]

If Trump sincerely wants to do something , he does it. He does not mind looking like a TACO vendor.

 

[Samson]

If Trump sincerely wants to do something , he does it.

Like saying "Quiet piggy" to a professional journalist for asking a question about the biggest news story today.

Spoiler The journo :

 

[soundjata]

The way I see it, it seems to me that a number of things have or are occurring at much the same time.

(a) the ceasefire in Israel means that many may feel there is less need to support him
(b) his policy on Ukraine is being demonstrated as ineffective
(c) his turning US troops inwards towards the states likely worries conservatives as it is a nasty precedent
(d) his extraordinary use of the presidency to shake groups down to enrich his family is a nasty precedent
(e) his policy and relations with foreign leaders is seen as losing the USA soft power
(f) the mid term elections mean republican candidates want to distance themselves from a flawed POTUS

The Epstein files is merely a convenient tool arising about now to lame duck him.

I like that you put things in perspective.

Political games are certainly happening in USA.

Outside USA, Russia and Israel strike harder. Today. Do they sense weakness or is it a coincidence?

 

[danjuno]

I think Trump sincerely wanted to release the files

He called them a hoax. Give me a break.

 

[Gori the Grey]

but felt like he had to be compelled into doing it so he did not look like he was caving to some partisan pressure

You're walking a pretty fine line here: not fine with being compelled by Ds (which how could they have anyway? so this wasn't really in the offing) vs fine with being compelled by the whole Congress.

Trump doesn't like to look as though he's being compelled by anyone.

That's what makes me think this thing has got away from him, his previous iron grip on his party is slackening.

Haven't been tuned in enough to the news yet today to hear how he has reacted to it. That's my next stop after here.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I find this outcome highly unlikely. I think Trump sincerely wanted to release the files, could have done it, but felt like he had to be compelled into doing it so he did not look like he was caving to some partisan pressure. As his brain tends to operate differently from most people.

Why do you bend over backwards for someone who has been proven by his own words and actions to deserve nothing more than scorn

 

[Sarin]

For anyone wondering where's the catch:
There's a provision in the bill: "DOJ is permitted to withhold certain information such as the personal information of victims and materials that would jeopardize an active federal investigation."
In other words, Trump's goons can choose what will actually be released. I'd bet that if anyone is implicated in the released files, it will be Democrats and Trump's opponents within Rep party.

 

[Klaus Hergersheimer]

He called them a hoax. Give me a break.

he uses a lot of words he does not know what they mean.

You're walking a pretty fine line here: not fine with being compelled by Ds (which how could they have anyway? so this wasn't really in the offing) vs fine with being compelled by the whole Congress.

Because rightly or wrongly he sees it as a distraction from, well, whatever it is he'd rather talk about...And he tends to talk about a lot of disconnected things. As far as I've seen here he had little contact with Jeffrey Epstein in very long time, and thus, he has zero compunction to release the records on a guy he himself had no dealings with since. In other words, he didn't see the Epstein stuff as his problem. So now, making congress tell him to do something means that the next time he's asked to, he gets to tell everyone they need to go to congress and draft such a request...

I'm not excusing it; I'm just exploring the psychology of the guy.

 

[warpus]

Someone is going to be implicated. It's just a matter of who.

Isn't it very possible that all Republicans and Republican adjacent pedophiles have been scrubbed/redacted from the files?

 

[Gori the Grey]

Trump has signed the bill.

Now it's on Bondi to refuse to release on the grounds of an "ongoing investigation."

But I saw one treatment that gives the right angle of attack on this: "Well, Donald Trump's not under investigation, is he? You could release the documents that mention him." Then, having established that principle, "You haven't released the documents mentioning Donald Trump. Does that mean he too is under investigation?"

Still won't get anywhere, I realize. But it would be a good way to needle.

 

[Lexicus]

I saw a video of one of the Epstein victims saying she voted for Trump and that's why I don't think white people should be allowed to vote tbh

 

[Angst]

I find this outcome highly unlikely. I think Trump sincerely wanted to release the files, could have done it, but felt like he had to be compelled into doing it so he did not look like he was caving to some partisan pressure. As his brain tends to operate differently from most people.

the second to last trump behavior was to call the epstein files a democrat hoax.

timeline. his team (not him, technically) campaigned on the files being released. he benefitted from this. then he said he wasn't in the files. then he said there are no files. then he got mad everyone was still asking about the files. then he said there ARE files, but they're a democrat hoax. then said the emails are a democrat hoax. then he said the files are real, and they're full of democrats, but he's not in them. and now he promises to release the files to investigate the democrats in them, the files that both do not exist and are real and are a democrat hoax.

during several of these steps, it was kind of on/off whether the files were kept classified to protect victims, all while victims campaigned to have them released.

nevermind that all of these steps involved usage of the DOJ, weaponization of the FBI, legal pressure & harassment (as we saw with katie johnson vs trump as a tone setter for this behavior), these were not just random tweets but active use of the government machinery to block it.

nevermind that he turned on several staunchly prominent maga people who were fundamental to its formation and a big part of his support. MTG.

this is all toootally normal behavior for someone innocent.

if he wanted to release the files, he could've made the order on the metonymic day 1. but instead he fought tooth and claw to prevent the release until it was obvious that he had to. it is a ridiculous position to have, thinking that he wanted to release the files, knowing how any of the federal government works and how much he oversees.

i have actually had some concerns about the epstein files from another perspective, in that it's important not to fall to conspiratorial thinking. so it's important to me personally to recognize when conspiracy happens (because it does), but not fall into the structuralization of moon logic and superpowerful grand plan schemes.

your post here was helpful in that matter. thinking this is in any way some 5d chess from this idiot has vindicated me. because that is conspiratorial thinking.

 

[Akka]

I saw a video of one of the Epstein victims saying she voted for Trump and that's why I don't think white people should be allowed to vote tbh

I love the "anti-racist" showing their true colors ^^

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

he uses a lot of words he does not know what they mean.

..... ok

Because rightly or wrongly he sees it as a distraction from, well, whatever it is he'd rather talk about...And he tends to talk about a lot of disconnected things. As far as I've seen here he had little contact with Jeffrey Epstein in very long time, and thus, he has zero compunction to release the records on a guy he himself had no dealings with since. In other words, he didn't see the Epstein stuff as his problem. So now, making congress tell him to do something means that the next time he's asked to, he gets to tell everyone they need to go to congress and draft such a request...

I'm not excusing it

So you know what that word means? I'm asking because off your post that is loaded with excuses.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Begging you to stop defending and giving the benefit of the doubt to a known rapist and domestic abuser of girls and women @Klaus Hergersheimer

It makes you look very bad