The Link Between Marijuana and Schizophrenia

[Earthling]

should we really keep beating this poor dead and buried horse?

Actually I'm going to post once more, and a quote-tree too, just to make clear what I was saying. Should of course be evident from reading the posts on the thread, including mine, but I don't want misinterpretation and I'm not going there.

There is a proven link between marijuana and schizophrenia, but scientists are still trying to piece it all together, because of the variety and amount of data involved.

There is NOT a proven link between marijuana and schizophrenia, and the article clearly does NOT say that, citing various studies that suggest marijuana use is not causing increases in schizophrenia. There is a significant difference between causing an illness in otherwise healthy, normal people with no history, and heightening symptoms of those who already have an illness.

There is a proven link between alcoholism and liver failure - ban alcohol.
There is a proven link between smoking and lung cancer - ban smoking.

Winner is of course right here about both tobacco and alcohol - they do actually cause those illnesses.

So, am I accurate in saying that people who smoke pot dont care if it might make them schizophrenic?

MobBoss clearly means this, saying it multiple times in case he wants to tell me I'm wrong again, as he posts it again. Of course it's all right if he was mistaken, but otherwise this is a strawman.

If smoking pot meant one would become schizophrenic, then of course, it would be a stupid drug. As the article says, the incidence of schizophrenia hasn't risen with more prevalent use of pot.

Contre has said what I'm just saying again, I agree with this quote.

 

[Tani Coyote]

This thread isnt about stuff thats already legal thats bad for us or whether the government has a right (it does) to regulate such things. The point is why would we knowingly add an additional potentially harmful and addictive drug to our populace fully realizing it can have harmful and addictive effects on the people that smoke it?

Why should marijuana be given an exception to the legality or lack thereof of other activities? Pretty much all those other harmful substances have adverse side effects over time(they are called harmful for a reason, after all), and yet they are legal. Unless marijuana is somehow "more dangerous," then treating it differently for no reason is silly.

That's exactly where people who smoke too much cannabis do end up - and it costs the taxpayer a fortune.

Not a problem if we pay for it all with taxes from the purchase of marijuana. Make them all pay for their habit and its possible consequences.

Also serve them a fat bill if possible.

So, in the interests of the government not locking people up in padded cells, cannabis should remain banned.

Someone already pointed out the irony in this.

Awful drug which has been known for years to cause mental illness, the solution is to stop putting the dealers in prison and send users with small amounts to jail for a long time.

...

Are you serious?

Punishing dealers makes far more sense. They're endorsing the habit. They are, after all, getting rich off others' suffering. Above all, they control the supply that allows the two points to be true.

The smoker? They have a bad habit they can't control. They need help, not jail time.

Please tell me this was sarcastic, as it was the most bizarre reversal of punishments I've ever seen.

Um, the only reason any cannabis smokers wind up in cells is because it's illegal. In the interests of not costing the taxpayer a fortune, legalize the stuff.

Excellent post. Quoted for truth.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

******** article, as it suggests correlation that it simultaneously denies. Schizophrenics, in fact, will smoke almost everything, including tobacco. The prevalence of smoking among schizophrenics is 50%! But no one is studying the correlation between schizophrenia and nicotine.

 

[emzie]

******** article, as it suggests correlation that it simultaneously denies. Schizophrenics, in fact, will smoke almost everything, including tobacco. The prevalence of smoking among schizophrenics is 50%! But no one is studying the correlation between schizophrenia and nicotine.

Thank you, doctor.

 

[El_Machinae]

I've learned that some words to never utter before going to pubmed are "surely, no one is studying THIS!"
Nicotine and schizophrenia is a hot topic.


I think that banning pot because of schizophrenics would be like banning cats because some people with cat-allergies were more likely to find cats lovable than normal people. The breakdown in the analogy is that the symptoms of MJ on the susceptible include a decreased comprehension that there's a problem. Or, maybe not, since finding cats to be lovable would increase with play, despite the sneezing.

 

[MobBoss]

How about the odds of the bill in California passing? No hope its going to happen? Too close to call? What do you think?

 

[civver_764]

If the general IQ there is over 60 then it will happen. But given how Prop 8 passed recently, I'm not too sure.

 

[azzaman333]

There is a proven link between marijuana and schizophrenia, but scientists are still trying to piece it all together, because of the variety and amount of data involved. Those suffering from or more susceptable to schizophrenia can become addicted to marijuana, as the drug gives them a temporary feeling of happiness while making their disease worse and triggering more episodes more often.

The very article you posted stated that whilst there appears to be a link between marijuana and schizophrenia, the data is insufficient to make such a conclusion. Anyone with a basic understanding of statistics would not conclude that marijuana causes schizophrenia after reading the article you posted.

Also, whilst there was a study that suggested those with schizophrenia can become addicted to marijuana, it was clearly stated that the marijuana increased the cognitive functioning of those with schizophrenia. "The research showed that patients who smoked marijuana had faster brain processing speed, greater verbal ability and better memory than patients who didn't smoke"


So basically, you'd have to ignore roughly half of the article to reach the conclusions you did. I hope for your sake you did so deliberately to further your obvious agenda.

 

[_random_]

Excellent post. Quoted for truth.

Thank you.

How about the odds of the bill in California passing? No hope its going to happen? Too close to call? What do you think?

If I would a betting man, I'd put a two dimes on the bill's passing. (You know what I mean.) Recent polls indicate that it will be closer than I anticipated though, and I'm still banking that it won't be like that one episode of the Simpsons. Here's hoping it works out for the best.

 

[LightFang]

 

[cardgame]

Article/Study is worthless. That is all.

 

[civ_king]

How about the odds of the bill in California passing? No hope its going to happen? Too close to call? What do you think?

It's not a bill it is a Proposition, Proposition 19 to be precise

 

[Red Door]

How about the odds of the bill in California passing? No hope its going to happen? Too close to call? What do you think?

It definitely has hope, but if I had to bet today, I would say it does not pass by a slim margin. Even if it passes, it will be put to court almost immediately and probably overturned.

We probably will not be able to tell which side will win until October though.

 

[civ_king]

It's probably going to be close and we wont be sure until November 3rd at which point the ultimate joy of the court hurdles begin

 

[Berzerker]

Mobby, you need to respond to the bolded parts of civking's post near the bottom of p1
here they are

while marijuana went from being a secret shared by a small community of hepcats and beatniks in the 1940s and '50s to a rite of passage for some 70% of youth by the turn of the century, rates of schizophrenia in the U.S. have remained flat, or possibly declined. For as long as it has been tracked, schizophrenia has been found to affect about 1% of the population.

yet researchers still aren't seeing increases in the overall schizophrenia rate or decreases in the average age of onset.

how do you explain that if pot was a cause of the illness?

But when the researchers controlled for other factors known to influence schizophrenia risk, including gender, education and socioeconomic status, the association between disease onset and marijuana disappeared.

another proven link?

adults with schizophrenia (and their families) who smoked marijuana, and found that they reported being better adjusted during childhood than those who did not indulge.

patients who smoked marijuana had faster brain processing speed, greater verbal ability and better memory than patients who didn't smoke

Hmm...medicinal pot helps people with mental illness and Mobby uses the research to argue for punishing sick people? Shameful, you make the baby Jesus cry...

 

[amadeus]

Small government means reduced economic and social interference, it has nothing to do with maintaining law and order. The correlation between drugs and harm of all kinds [to the user and society] is so high and so well-established that anyone irresponsible enough to take them deserves heavy policing.

Drug prohibition promotes neither obedience to the law nor social order, unless you think gang turf wars and adults consenting to what you believe are self-destructive behaviors being jailed is somehow law and order.

In the United States, the Drug Enforcement Agency has over a $2 billion budget and intercepts about $500 million worth of drugs. So for every $4 we spend on this agency that violates the rights of the people and the sovereign states, we intercept $1 worth of drugs. Now consider that the DEA intercepts less than 1% of drugs imported into or sold in America.

Law and order?

 

[Ayn Rand]

Drug prohibition promotes neither obedience to the law nor social order, unless you think gang turf wars and adults consenting to what you believe are self-destructive behaviors being jailed is somehow law and order.

In the United States, the Drug Enforcement Agency has over a $2 billion budget and intercepts about $500 million worth of drugs. So for every $4 we spend on this agency that violates the rights of the people and the sovereign states, we intercept $1 worth of drugs. Now consider that the DEA intercepts less than 1% of drugs imported into or sold in America.

Law and order?

Thanks for the stats, but what do they mean in context? I'm from the UK, but I thought the DEA were primarily concerned with making arrests and building cases so that criminals get put into jail. Taking criminals out of the system is more important than drugs intercepted - how many criminals does that 1% represent?

As for turf wars and gang formation, I think those criminals will behave that way no matter what we do. If we have to choose a battleground [and we do] to fight the criminals, we may as well choose drugs.

@taniciusfox - drug takers are not exactly innocent. A strong deterrent effect will take the casual users out of the market and then they can spend their cash on more wholesome goods.

You've also got the wrong idea about taxing drugs. It will be difficult to find a private company willing to sell such dangerous products - they will get sued. This means that the government will have to step in and run the drug business - I don't want the government to be the national drug dealer [you may laugh and say that they are already, but that's a different story ].

@Formaldehyde - drug-related crime is not always related to the illegality of the substance, but to its toxicity, the need to steal to get drugs [and they would still be expensive even if legalised, in order to pay for tax/lawsuits, encouraging theft], and the kind of irrational anti-social personality that develops in drug takers.

@contre - it's not in my rational self-interests to fund rehab. It's in my interests to have a strong deterrent for irrational behaviour as opposed to soft treatment for people who are irresponsible and harming society.

 

[naterator]

It will be difficult to find a private company willing to sell such dangerous products...

Ya, it's so hard to find people to make legal drugs, it's just not worth the risk...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/06/business/06tobacco.html
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=395633

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Rah, double post.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

So, am I accurate in saying that people who smoke pot dont care if it might make them schizophrenic?

No, you're not.

Because that seems to be the prevaling attitude of many who seem desirous of downplaying the information given in the article.

Downplaying information in the article?

But here's the conundrum: while marijuana went from being a secret shared by a small community of hepcats and beatniks in the 1940s and '50s to a rite of passage for some 70% of youth by the turn of the century, rates of schizophrenia in the U.S. have remained flat, or possibly declined. For as long as it has been tracked, schizophrenia has been found to affect about 1% of the population.
(See a photoessay on a father with mental illness.)

One explanation may be that the two factors are coincidental, not causal: perhaps people who have a genetic susceptibility to schizophrenia also happen to especially enjoy marijuana. Still, some studies suggest that smoking pot can actually trigger the disease earlier in individuals who are predisposed, and yet researchers still aren't seeing increases in the overall schizophrenia rate or decreases in the average age of onset.

In recent months, new research has explored some of these issues. One study led by Dr. Serge Sevy, an associate professor of psychiatry at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York City, looked at 100 patients between the ages of 16 and 40 with schizophrenia, half of whom smoked marijuana. Sevy and colleagues found that among the marijuana users, 75% had begun smoking before the onset of schizophrenia and that their disease appeared about two years earlier than in those who did not use the drug. But when the researchers controlled for other factors known to influence schizophrenia risk, including gender, education and socioeconomic status, the association between disease onset and marijuana disappeared.

Do you mean the downplaying of this information in the article?

edit: Incidentally, I already knew the link between Marijuana and Psychosis. I actually thought Schizophrenia was considered part of this link. This article told me that link wasn't as solid as I thought it was.

The way I can remember the link works is that you can be susceptible to an increased risk of psychosis. I actually know someone who is. If he smokes weed he often used to have psychotic episodes. So he doesn't smoke weed anymore. I never had hallucinations or psychotic episodes.

Best to remember that mind altering drugs, be it alcohol or marijuana should always be used in moderation and with caution.