The Next NES of Das: Development Thread

[Symphony D.]

Nation A has 10 recruit divisions; 10 professional; 10 veteran divs; 10 hardened divs and 10 elite divs. Then in a war the losses for each level engaged have to be calculated and then listed separately.

Why? If there are 40 units, and they take 11 casualties, list it as 11 casualties. Deduct from whatever slots seem appropriate in Stats. You don't have to roll it out in the update itself, just in Stats. The player knows the units they had before the update, the number they purchased, and the number left over. They can deduce what specifically was lost. Do it by feel based on what orders were issued (this is what's done anyway, so how's it different?).

This is also no different than if you have a baseline training system ("all units start at Green") or a deductive training system ("all units are the average of that branch of service minus two levels"), because any of the three systems will produce a lot of units in varied stages of training as players crank out new ones and upgrade existing ones. Same work either way, better technical operation, more diverse output (small nations can increase training capability quickly and relatively cheaply, but don't get many units per turn out of it; large nations cost a lot, but they get a lot of units out of it).

 

[Israelite9191]

New fresh start ITNES. Fresh starts have really fallen out of popularity as of late and we could really use more.

 

[Thlayli]

This thread needs a poll, so that das can disregard it.

 

[Jason The King]

a new ITNES sounds very interesting, though I'll probably join in finally (my first since NES2 I) with whatever you do.

EDIT: oh, and do not put armies on the map. ugly.

 

[das]

I think that trade and the economy should be separated. Perhaps have trade, agriculture and manufacturing be weighted components of the overall economy score with the weighting shifting over time. Cities could be part of the various sector subscores. numeric based systems (rather than word based levels) work best for this

Agriculture: +3
Manufacturing: +1
Trade: +4
Economy: (3*1)+(1*2)+(4*1.5)= 11
Spending could then be tied to or derived from the econ level. Sector spending would be how players change their economy. Wars might reduce agriculture levels, but have less effect on manufacturing etc. loss of cities might effect manufacturing.

Yes, sounds about right.

Still, if you think this is all too much, I would agree that listing deviances from some norm would be far preferable to just listing an age stat.

Actually what I have in mind is about the same as you're talking about, only the actual nation stats are less cluttered. The "norm" ages will ofcourse be malleable as well.

New fresh start ITNES. Fresh starts have really fallen out of popularity as of late and we could really use more.

I know you don't like the rules there but IMHO ~Darkening~'s present NES fills that niche quite nicely, and really, I think that many other people can make a pure fresh start better than I would.

Advanced fresh start, however, is what I'm leaning towards at present. The idea needs some more development, though. One problem is ofcourse that of nations not being immortal. I suppose that in most cases we will simply have successor states, or even simply different dynasties. Still, I'm sure we could come up with something as we go. For instance, I would use expanding Civilised Zones and a growing player cap, so that more players would join as more regions and civilisations become available.

If I do go with this idea I suppose I could start earlier, to get to the IT starting point faster. For many obvious reasons BT updates are easier to do than IT ones.

 

[Symphony D.]

Advanced fresh start, however, is what I'm leaning towards at present.

If you don't mind being the only one in the field, then I can't raise much strong opposition... just rally the ones who want NES2 VII to kill all the people who want that instead.

 

[das]

I'll just sick Amon Savag at them, if it comes to that.

 

[Niklas]

Advanced fresh start, however, is what I'm leaning towards at present.

If you don't mind being the only one in the field, then I can't raise much strong opposition... just rally the ones who want NES2 VII to kill all the people who want that instead.

Don't worry das, counting replies in this thread shows a larger support for a fresh start than for an althist. So we'll back you up.

 

[Azale]

If it means you'll start it earlier, I'm all for it

 

[Dachs]

I'll just sick Amon Savag at them, if it comes to that.

Do you mean sic? Ah, hooray, a das NES, a way to once more achieve a high point in modding.

Of all of the options, the Guess-the-PoD map is most depressing, since I probably won't be Germany, although if Ionia is open I'd take it; ITNES II would be okay, though I'd rather not. Continuing previous NESes is a no-no, although if you must keep ITNES I going I suppose I could play as Rome. NES2 IV was the one where I launched a civil war on myself in order to get rid of an alliance, right? I'd prefer not, seeing as France in that one was just a teensy bit overpowered, as usual.

The whole Advanced Fresh Start idea is okay, I suppose. I don't really like the lack of control or the likelihood that my nation will die due to something entirely random. This is probably the idea I'd support the most, though. If you do start this, I'd definitely seize some sort of Hellenic state, because if I don't, I wouldn't be playing to the stereotypes that we all know so well.

 

[Kal'thzar]

The whole Advanced Fresh Start idea is okay, I suppose. I don't really like the lack of control or the likelihood that my nation will die due to something entirely random. This is probably the idea I'd support the most, though. If you do start this, I'd definitely seize some sort of Hellenic state, because if I don't, I wouldn't be playing to the stereotypes that we all know so well.

I also like this idea even if my nation does die, I'll just create a new one

And I hope we see a roman type empire; just for fun. (and to see about 6 players exclaim their hatred of das for showing favourtism etc etc)

 

[das]

Do you mean sic?

I actually checked before posting, apparently both ways are appropriate, and both also happen to have alternative meanings, so I'm not sure what's worse.

I don't really like the lack of control or the likelihood that my nation will die due to something entirely random.

You could always pick up a successor state, as you almost always end up doing anyway. At any rate I will try to keep complete extinction to a minimum.

And I hope we see a roman type empire; just for fun. (and to see about 6 players exclaim their hatred of das for showing favourtism etc etc)

The former will happen if circumstances make it possible. The latter will happen if Hell doesn't freeze over.

 

[Thlayli]

Don't go easy on nations...they can and should collapse. Some few might survive into new dynasties, but on average nations should be conquered, assimilated, adjusted and resurface just like in OTL.

Also, do you plan on going with traditional Civilized Zones and ethnic groups?

 

[Niklas]

What era are you aiming for? How far will the fast-forward intro take us?

I agree on the don't-go-easy part.

 

[silver 2039]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! I wanted NES 2VI!!! Not some stupid Frest Start

 

[Azale]

It's not a fresh start if its being warped thousands of years from 4000BC silly.

Go harsher on nations than ITNES! Just give the player displaced by a destroyed nation the opportunity to take the nation that took its place (unless the nation is already a PC).

 

[Insane_Panda]

I will join this Fresh start, I guess... *grumbles*

 

[JosefStalinator]

Bah, Joe was enjoying the long lack of fresh starts.

 

[das]

As already pointed out, it isn't quite the same as a fresh start.

I've been brainstorming some more about the rules:
- As already mentioned, I'll introduce military description stats with all the useful military information. That means that the Training or Quality stat is abolished. It just kept getting silly, and I don't think it ever made sense for an abstract "training level" to be raised by simply throwing money at it. Training - of both the soldiers and the officers - is much less straightforward than that, usually; there are different goals and means and such. This military description stat (which will cover things like leadership, training, equipment, organisation, base unit and anything else that I judge relevant) will be influenced by numerous factors, such as recent combat, special training programmes, military academies and so on;
- Government quality stat will be replaced by a separate Bureaucracy stat. The very central authority is generally speaking personified by the player himself; if the player is good, than it would efficient, if not, then not - there isn't really much one could do about that conventionally, in a NES or (especially with monarchies and such) in real life. The bureaucracy however is obviously expandable and improvable; it manages both everyday issues in the provinces and the implementation of assorted government programmes, and the quality of the bureaucracy will influence how it all goes;
- About the armies - is their presence on the map useful at all (I ask those who played in ITNES I's second incarnation)? Or could you people be trusted to remember your army numbers and locations by yourself?
- Suggestions on how should colonies be managed are strongly encouraged. Exploration however will simply be handled arbitrarily.

Finally, about BT player control. To compensate obvious deficit of that, I'll probably PM players about their responses to particularily large global crises, to give them at least some chance of trying to counter them. If I do start the BT updates early then my update schedule would be pretty unstable anyway, though I probably won't wait too long.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

I'd join NES2 VII, NES2 VI, or a new ITNES. I might throw a nation into the advanced fresh start just to shake things up.

I found the army numbers to be practically useful, though not aesthetically pleasing.