The Olive Branch Thread

[LightSpectra]

I think this is a good example of what I'm talking about: did they say things about you or Catholics that are defamatory, like "Catholics are stupid," or were they attacking the Church as an institution, as in "The Holy See is an introverted, shriveled old man?" One is a personal attack, and one is not, though it might still be offensive to you because it's an assault upon something that you happen to think is legit. It would be a good exercise for us (not merely you, I'm simply using this as an Exhibit A) in this thread to try to dissociate the two, and thus determine the appropriate amount of hostility to return. I seem to remember you and I having a very heated argument about Lenin once. He is a man that I admire, but he is not me. So, much as it might upset me that you think he was a bad person, you weren't really saying I'm a bad person, at most you might be indirectly implying that I'm an ignorant supporter of someone who was bad, which is really a much smaller indictment that we might surrender unto opinion, don't you think?

Well, questioning if Lenin was a good person or not has little to do with established facts and more to do with one's already-held political and moral beliefs. So a contrary opinion on that is something I could strongly oppose (even venomously if this was 2010), but it's not something I find to be offensive and distasteful in and of itself. Contrary to this, there's just stupid myths that people repeat, perhaps maliciously. Formaldehyde claimed that Catholics caused the Holocaust; he denied that he said it, even while I was quoting his own post to him, and his defense was mainly accusing me of poisoning his character (though he did also quote some articles on the matter to get away from that, which I responded to in kind). I'm willing to forgive all of that with the promise that it doesn't happen again.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Ah, I understand. Carry on.

 

[Dreadnought]

I apologize to anyone I may have offended at one time or another. I try not to do so, at least intentionally.

 

[AlpsStranger]

I apologize to anyone I may have offended at one time or another. I try not to do so, at least intentionally.

Nah, you're not that offensive Dreadnought.

In a forum full of people like myself, Forma, MobBoss, MisterCooper, and GhostWriter16 I highly doubt you've offended anyone.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Interesting thread idea. If kept congenial, it could be a worthwhile addition. I think the key to its success will be your (collective OT) willingness to not use it to go after one another and to use it as a "time out" zone to talk and not have the talk be about arguing a cause or side.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I apologize to anyone I may have offended at one time or another. I try not to do so, at least intentionally.

Conservative =/= offensive. If people don't like you or are offended by you, they are immature. I don't agree with your politics as far as I can tell, but you're a nice guy.

Interesting thread idea. If kept congenial, it could be a worthwhile addition. I think the key to its success will be your (collective OT) willingness to not use it to go after one another and to use it as a "time out" zone to talk and not have the talk be about arguing a cause or side.

Well, that's why I put it in the Chamber so that it'll be watched more closely. On the other hand, it recieves a fraction of the traffic in the Chamber that it would get in the Tavern. The 'brought to you by CFC' thread is a subject equally suitable for heavy trolling, but aside from a few exceptions, it's gone really well and people like/use it. I almost want to move it to the Tavern because of that, but then again, this is direct interaction about personal issues, so *maybe* it's better suited here. Well, it is better suited here, but if no one sees it...

As for using this to argue a side or case, I think it's going to be unavoidable in some part, but with the first 'olive branch' exchange here, we kind of stated our grievance and left it at that. It's important on the one hand to understand when someone has a legitimate problem with an ideology or argument. It helps give perspective and highlights where the true, deep disagreement is as opposed to the layer of greasy troll fat sitting on top of that. On the other hand, yeah, say your peace but don't start arguing the debate here.

Question for mods: I am guessing that there would be no way for a poster to interact with a mod here as it would flirt or cross into PDMA, even if they were respectful and had a legitimate issue? I just want clarification.


I do have the feeling that this thread will be like parent/teacher conferences. The parents that most need to go to the conferences are the ones who don't show up. The posters who most need this won't show up, I'm afraid.

 

[GhostWriter16]

I try to not have a personal animosity towards anyone. I disagree, sometimes vehemently with lots of people, but there is probably no one here I'm incapable of being friendly with, or wouldn't meet for a beer (or root beer for our non-alcoholic friends) if they came to town.

EDIT: Well, let me add a caveat to that. I don't think many people that I disagree with here think I'm a bad person, just merely a believer in wrong ideas, but I wouldn't want to be around someone who thinks I'm a bad person, and I can't say that I regret animosity with such a person.

Sometimes in the heat of debate, things get...excited. I don't think that's a bad thing. It would be far worse if everything was heavily sanitized and our interactions lacked passion.



The Eagleface (never heard the term before, but ) is a CFC OT classic in itself, kind of like the Far Left's smiley. Pretty funny when BSmith was assumed to be amongst the conservative American servicemen/veterans because of it!

You probably forged the social contract with my signature, but otherwise you're a good person from what I've seen

Apologies for anytime I may have offended you, if any.

I know I'm usually a big jerk.

I still like all of you on some level

But hey, if a classroom of dead kindergarteners was something we could all keep our **** together about I'd be very disappointed in us.

I'm usually a big jerk too

And we're both paranoid. +2

Nah, you're not that offensive Dreadnought.

In a forum full of people like myself, Forma, MobBoss, MisterCooper, and GhostWriter16 I highly doubt you've offended anyone.

I'm far worse than anyone else on that list

Conservative =/= offensive. If people don't like you or are offended by you, they are immature. I don't agree with your politics as far as I can tell, but you're a nice guy.




Well, that's why I put it in the Chamber so that it'll be watched more closely. On the other hand, it recieves a fraction of the traffic in the Chamber that it would get in the Tavern. The 'brought to you by CFC' thread is a subject equally suitable for heavy trolling, but aside from a few exceptions, it's gone really well and people like/use it. I almost want to move it to the Tavern because of that, but then again, this is direct interaction about personal issues, so *maybe* it's better suited here. Well, it is better suited here, but if no one sees it...

As for using this to argue a side or case, I think it's going to be unavoidable in some part, but with the first 'olive branch' exchange here, we kind of stated our grievance and left it at that. It's important on the one hand to understand when someone has a legitimate problem with an ideology or argument. It helps give perspective and highlights where the true, deep disagreement is as opposed to the layer of greasy troll fat sitting on top of that. On the other hand, yeah, say your peace but don't start arguing the debate here.

Question for mods: I am guessing that there would be no way for a poster to interact with a mod here as it would flirt or cross into PDMA, even if they were respectful and had a legitimate issue? I just want clarification.


I do have the feeling that this thread will be like parent/teacher conferences. The parents that most need to go to the conferences are the ones who don't show up. The posters who most need this won't show up, I'm afraid.

I don't remember what it was but I know I said something awhile ago that ticked you off and made you no longer like arguing with me. Whatever it was, I apologize.

If Useless is around, I'm willing to try (again) to make up if you are.

 

[JollyRoger]

I apologize for baiting anyone here into needing to offer me an olive branch.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I don't remember what it was but I know I said something awhile ago that ticked you off and made you no longer like arguing with me. Whatever it was, I apologize.

It was the constant departure from reality (from my perspective) and rants about Lincoln that pushed me over the edge. I have recently come to grips with the fact that I am partially responsible for this by baiting you over it incessantly.

I have just quit responding to you pretty much at all over the last few days. I am convinced that there is nothing I can say that will change your mind in any way, so I just give up.

It isn't fair to you that everyone, myself included, incessantly attack your opinions and bait you into rants that are off topic.

Further, it isn't fair (and this point applies to many people, not just you) for you to come to off topic to debate with absolutely no willingness to really listen or give on any points. I don't feel that you are here as much to debate as you are here to use this site as a soapbox to push your ideology that most of us aren't interested.

I am past harboring ill will toward you. I am sorry that you can't post with immediate ridicule.

However, I have nothing to say to you in any threads. I feel it's a wasted effort. Also, your apology for pissing me off isn't necessary. I haven't been nice to you recently and don't deserve it.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

@Borachio - I think you and rugbyLEAGUEfan are the only two posters who are incapable of pissing someone off. You guys are pure awesomesauce.

That's really nice of you Hobbs. I'm genuinely touched, thanks mate. But if I was truly honest with myself, I often regret being less confrontational when I perceive that someone is talking crap. I feel I can put into words my beef without making it personal but when crunch time arrives to post, I doubt myself and say nothing. (Still, I'd like to think I've reeled off the odd withering retort in my time).

I think the fact that I really don't "do" the internet may also be a factor. I haven't been to ten forums over the last ten years. I don't twitter and rarely use my facebook. This has meant I wasn't really aware of the general douchebaggery that I now realize (this awareness is not from CFC, this place has a very low douche ratio) is common when anonymous people can just spew forth bile masked as opinion. I've treated this place as much closer to real life than it is, so I've erred on the side of good manners, being less committed to my views than I truly am in the name of pragmatism, "if don't have anything nice to say about someone, don't say it at all" etc. All well good and the end result is that I'm lucky enough to get an awesome compliment from a great guy like Hobbs. But I'm questioning whether or not that's really the purpose of CFC and internet forums in general.....I sometimes wish I had the courage to stand by my convictions a little more and not worry so much about what others may think.

HAHA though......here's the irony. My beef was with you Hobbs. I was a little annoyed that a couple of lengthy PM's which I felt were both complimentary and clearly well intentioned didn't warrant a reply. I realize that some people find PM annoying (it's quite surprising how often people don't reply) and I'm a firm believer (in telephone parlance) that one text message does not command a reply. But if a PM is lengthy and has taken some time and effort, it is the right thing to reply, even if just to say "Hey thanks but I dont really do PM's, appreciate the thought though".

But you're well and truly off the hook after your post anyway dude.

EDIT....oh crap, just realized it's the Olive Branch thread, not the "have a go at Hobbs for not replying to your PMs" thread. So my olive branch is to Hobbs for getting up him in his own thread.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Apologies for anytime I may have offended you, if any.

Whether this was a specifically-directed "you" or a general "you", I would like to make something clear from my own perspective:

If/when I apologize to anybody, I will OWN the reason for the apology. There will be no "may have offended" or "if I have offended you, I'm sorry..."

Only in that way can the apology be sincere and truthful, in my view.


Hobbsyoyo, please understand that I have no wish to insult your wife's movie preferences. My disdain for nuTrek is because of what I think of the movie and those who made it, not those who are casual watchers.

 

[Borachio]

I apologize for baiting anyone here into needing to offer me an olive branch.

Ha!

Nice one. But sooo subtle.

I think the fact that I really don't "do" the internet may also be a factor. I haven't been to ten forums over the last ten years. I don't twitter and rarely use my facebook. This has meant I wasn't really aware of the general douchebaggery that I now realize (this awareness is not from CFC, this place has a very low douche ratio) is common when anonymous people can just spew forth bile masked as opinion. I've treated this place as much closer to real life than it is, so I've erred on the side of good manners, being less committed to my views than I truly am in the name of pragmatism, "if don't have anything nice to say about someone, don't say it at all" etc. All well good and the end result is that I'm lucky enough to get an awesome compliment from a great guy like Hobbs. But I'm questioning whether or not that's really the purpose of CFC and internet forums in general.....I sometimes wish I had the courage to stand by my convictions a little more and not worry so much about what others may think.

This is pretty much true for me, too. Except that my internet career is less than a year old - to all intents and purposes. And CFC is the only forum I've ever posted on.

Anyway, I'm pretty certain I'll have offended someone somewhen here in CFC. I only wish I was sufficiently aware to know exactly whom and with what action. Perhaps they'd be good enough to let me know.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If/when I apologize to anybody, I will OWN the reason for the apology. There will be no "may have offended" or "if I have offended you, I'm sorry..."

Only in that way can the apology be sincere and truthful, in my view.

I like to apologize to Valka D'Ur for not praising her more often when she makes head-of-nail-hitting posts like this.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

Reserved for Quackers

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

Reserved for Quackers.

 

[Quackers]

Two whole spaces?
Me and Hobbsyoyo are bros now.
Who have I offended?

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

Two whole spaces?
Me and Hobbsyoyo are bros now.
Who have I offended?

You're abrasive, not offensive. I mainly chose you for the joke post as you play by the golden rule....."if you're gonna dish it out, be sure you can take it", so I knew you'd be cool.

 

[Quackers]

Yeah, I can be quite...confrontational.
Though, when I'm met with 100% sincerity and respect I do my best to return it in spades.

I'm a bit of an Old Testament Christian in the "an eye for an eye" perspective. Unfortunately, it leads to the scenario of "well that escalated quickly" - which isn't fun.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

With an avatar like that it's impossible to take offense.

 

[GhostWriter16]

It was the constant departure from reality (from my perspective) and rants about Lincoln that pushed me over the edge. I have recently come to grips with the fact that I am partially responsible for this by baiting you over it incessantly.

I have just quit responding to you pretty much at all over the last few days. I am convinced that there is nothing I can say that will change your mind in any way, so I just give up.

It isn't fair to you that everyone, myself included, incessantly attack your opinions and bait you into rants that are off topic.

Further, it isn't fair (and this point applies to many people, not just you) for you to come to off topic to debate with absolutely no willingness to really listen or give on any points. I don't feel that you are here as much to debate as you are here to use this site as a soapbox to push your ideology that most of us aren't interested.

I am past harboring ill will toward you. I am sorry that you can't post with immediate ridicule.

However, I have nothing to say to you in any threads. I feel it's a wasted effort. Also, your apology for pissing me off isn't necessary. I haven't been nice to you recently and don't deserve it.

Fair enough and thanks

No hard feelings.