The shogun strikes back!

[shyuhe]

Economics is worth fewer beakers than nationalism. We'd have to research nationalism a few turns to make that trade.

Whipping in a size 18 city is hardly worthwhile. For that matter, whipping in a city more than size 6-8ish is questionable, unless you're whipping away lots of angry citizens.

What's our current tech order? I'm thinking liberalism -- econ -- nationalism -- MT -- RP -- rifling? In that case, I would re-mine the grassland hills. The plains hill we can leave with windmills - 1/2/1 is better than 0/4/0. And I'd revolt as soon as econ comes in to mercantilism and a religious civic (I don't think we have access to theocracy). We can then revolt to nationalism as soon as it comes in (which will probably take a few turns of research before we can trade for it). Then start drafting muskets in our cities.

Tenochtitlan should also build the FP some point in the near future. It'll really help cut down maintenance.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Economics is worth fewer beakers than nationalism. We'd have to research nationalism a few turns to make that trade.

Whipping in a size 18 city is hardly worthwhile. For that matter, whipping in a city more than size 6-8ish is questionable, unless you're whipping away lots of angry citizens.

What's our current tech order? I'm thinking liberalism -- econ -- nationalism -- MT -- RP -- rifling? In that case, I would re-mine the grassland hills. The plains hill we can leave with windmills - 1/2/1 is better than 0/4/0. And I'd revolt as soon as econ comes in to mercantilism and a religious civic (I don't think we have access to theocracy). We can then revolt to nationalism as soon as it comes in (which will probably take a few turns of research before we can trade for it). Then start drafting muskets in our cities.

Tenochtitlan should also build the FP some point in the near future. It'll really help cut down maintenance.

Nothing to add... sounds like a very good plan . We can perhaps skip MT and hold cuirassiers with phants as you said in your last post.
Yeah I considered the FP in Tenoch..., but iirc it has 2 settled GGs so I built some trebs to quickly reinforce the front. A candidate for IW imo (if going for domination)... but the FP first is nice.

 

[PaulusIII]

Not Nationalism. Nationalism has little to no trade value because two AI's already have it (Gil and Charlie) and we can obtain it from Gil for Lib+whatever we bulb, so I see no point in using Lib for Nationalism.

I agree with Economics for firing off a Golden Age + tradebait. We can probably obtain Printing Press from Pericles as well. In that case we can do our big civic switch to Nationhood-Mercantilism-FR. Theocracy is IMHO not the best choice; we have no religion spread around enough to do a theocracy switch justice. And we'd need to get Theology somewhere in a trade though I doubt that will be the problem.

And if we're going to draft we like that happy bonus from FR...

Printing Press means the rest of our path is laid out for us. RP -> Rifling

 

[shyuhe]

Econ --> GA sounds good. I don't remember - do we have the MoM? If we do, Taj may be worth building too...

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Econ --> GA sounds good. I don't remember - do we have the MoM? If we do, Taj may be worth building too...

I think you are confusing with the Aztec SG ...
I was about to post that we had no chances at the Taj but I checked and neither Charly or Gilga have marble, so we can at least try

edit: the MoM is in Vienna.

 

[PaulusIII]

Add to that that we know that Gil hasn't started building yet. Otherwise he wouldn't agree to trade Nat away.

By now I'm wondering how far we can get against the Burger King with our current resources. His defenses are solid.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Another stuff to think about: what to do with SunTzu? we have a medic, one guy settled in HE, one in Moai, 2 in Tenochtitlan...

 

[shyuhe]

I thought we already smashed HRE's SoD? I think you're confusing him with Ramesses, who has an incoming stack right now. Our current stack probably can't take more than another city or two - so we'll definitely need reinforcements.

I would settle SunTzu in another high hammer city. Maybe the city with double ivory (blanking on the name). Or we can stack him in Tenochtitlan. Either option works for me.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

I thought we already smashed HRE's SoD? I think you're confusing him with Ramesses, who has an incoming stack right now. Our current stack probably can't take more than another city or two - so we'll definitely need reinforcements.

I would settle SunTzu in another high hammer city. Maybe the city with double ivory (blanking on the name). Or we can stack him in Tenochtitlan. Either option works for me.

Yeah, the main HRE stack is gone, the one incoming is egyptian... about reinforcements: I think every single city is producing military
I am good with settling the GG

 

[Diamondeye]

Uhm... Are you waiting for me? I have only just returned from a trip with my classmates, so I'm a bit behind in all those SGs...

So, the short term plan is: Get Lib for Economics, start a GA, swap civics (what civics?), kill Charly...

What to tech? What to build? Who to like?

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Uhm... Are you waiting for me? I have only just returned from a trip with my classmates, so I'm a bit behind in all those SGs...

yeap and no pb

So, the short term plan is: Get Lib for Economics, start a GA, swap civics (what civics?), kill Charly...

Yes, switch to nationhood, mercantilism, possibly FR... take a look at the situation as there is a quite large stack to be killed... I think grabbing some cities and then taking peace to build the Taj makes sense. We will push again after rifling most likely.

What to tech? What to build? Who to like?

lib -> eco -> nationalism (trade it after a partial research) -> rifling path. Build troops and the Taj (well some universities here and there are nice to open up Oxford), FP in Tenochtitlan. You could also start the NE in the city with rice, clams, and fish...
Who to like?

Cheers

 

[PaulusIII]

If we're going to build the Taj Mahal we cannot afford to wait for partial researching Nationalism, because:

1. Charle might already be building so we have no time to waste
2. Other AI's might start building the Taj themselves and decline trading Nationalism.

So we have to settle for a double deal Lib+Eco for Nat, unfortunately. We can however trade for PP as well in this manner which will put us one step closer to Rifling. Once we have PP, just research straight to Rifling. We'll pick the other techs up as we go.

 

[shyuhe]

If we trade for Nationalism, we should win any race to the Taj as we have marble + a GA. Just pick a good hammer city to build it in.

I would trade lib+econ to Gilgamesh. He's not a long-term threat in this game.

 

[Diamondeye]

This could be a title of many of my sets, but this time it sin't my fault.

The problem is this: We want Nationalism asap. We want it from Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh is one turn slower than us to Liberalism - so we get Economy and the GM, which I immidiately blow on the GA.

Okay. So we only have Economics on Gilgamesh. We want Nationalism and eventually Printing Press aswell. So we try Pericles...

Gah! Looks like were in a bit of trouble here. We need to act fast. But Gilgamesh won't trade Nationalism! We need gold/tradefodder:

I had to, seriously. I also begged gold off one of our Pleased fellas. the two others declined, sadly.

We crush incoming HRE stacks, but the RNG hates me - I lost Samurai to War Chariots, and the like, far too much. A new wave of Musketmen are incoming, but HRE has Gunpowder aswell, and it teching MT.

AP vote comes up:

I decide for a "no" - it'll pass, I think, but our war with Ramesses is not important at the moment. We need to break Charly first.

Finally, We have enough beakers in Nat to do this trade (I think Gilly was teching Eco):

I know this is subpar so I find our best production city, Switch to Taj (13 golden turns or so, but we only have 3 left). I chop a leftover forest into it aswell.

I also swap civics: FR, Merc and Nationalism (we need the !). I trade Wheats to Pericles for 5gpt.

And the AP vote passes:

... I leave a save where we have just started marching on HRE (basically just left the city we were holding), and we have ~8 turns left on Taj, one Golden turn left. Revolution is possible again in 2.

 

[shyuhe]

A few comments: You actually could have traded lib+econ to Gilgamesh for PP first, then trade lib+econ to Pericles for Nationalism+optics (i.e., as soon as we get liberalism). This would put the Taj for completion at the end of the GA. As it stands, theocracy isn't really useful and doesn't count as trade fodder as all of the AI already have it. Optics too.

Since we're in nationalism, we should start drafting muskets aggressively and slowbuild trebs/pikes.

Also, some of the tiles and specialists need to get shuffled.

 

[Diamondeye]

The trade for Optics/Theo was just backfilling by trading with a useless AI - he has four cities.

I could not convince any of the AIs that had Nationalism, to part with it, before when I did.

I did not cancel the Marble trade to Pericles that Paulus established, I had no idea we were trading it at all. If that means we lose the Taj, I'll feel a bit gripy. We should cancel it now, then.

 

[PaulusIII]

I think I owe you an apology.

We were still trading marble to Pericles because of a trade I made - he had nothing to build with it, and a few extra GPT were always welcome. Unfortunately, I forgot to warn of this and that will probably mean that Pericles will beat us to the Taj Mahal.

We'll just win a few turns later, then...

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Rolo, is that OK with you to let Sweetacshon play before you as he hasn't since a long time?

Will comment the save (even if you guys prolly covered everything already ) after the soccer match

 

[Sweetacshon]

Yep, I can take it. But if you want to make comments, I'll wait to play.

Good comments, but a few other things- we can still trade econ for Pericles PP, it's a bit lop sided, but gets us closer to the rifle. Alternatively, we can save econ in the hope he'll tech something useful. Also a GS probably in this set... I think he'll bulb chem, which is useless now but is one step closer to cannon after rifles. Any thoughts?

I've been away for a bit - is the plan to vassalise Charle and move on to Egypt?

 

[shyuhe]

I would trade for PP. The faster we get to rifling, the better. Also, Toku's drafted muskets are good - they're combat 1, CG1, and drill1 out of the gate. I normally don't draft muskets but I'd make an exception for these puppies.

We want to take HRE's capital and the city with the MoM. We can vassal him after that - I don't think it really matters at that point.