The Spanish Reconquista (RCQ)

[LouLong]

New v 1.2 out !

Ok, I have corrected some of these bugs (Railroad, swordsman, "iron" I think, Piracy Dominance won't be started by Almoravids), corrected some entries (chebeck, pirates) and a few other things.

Since there had been only 6 downloads, I kept the version 1.2 for these modifs. If you are among the 6 who downloaded it, please redownload.

BUT : the resource problem (when you click on all resources or strategic resources in the civilopedia) remains. It could be gfx-related.... ???

 

[eddie_verdde]

New v 1.2 out !

Ok, I have corrected some of these bugs (Railroad, swordsman, "iron" I think, Piracy Dominance won't be started by Almoravids), corrected some entries (chebeck, pirates) and a few other things.
Since there had been only 6 downloads, I kept the version 1.2 for these modifs. If you are among the 6 who downloaded it, please redownload.

I've just downloaded the most recent version. Piracy Dominance isn't started by Almoravids indeed but the railroad, swordsman and iron bugs remain. But the railroad bug didn't happen in the older version.

Did you consider the suggestion I made in my last post? Would it be technically possible to divide the Almoravid empire into smaller kingdoms if a certain number of cities were captured by rivals?

BTW I have some digitalized pictures of my collection of lead dummies that you might be interested in. They are very detailed and accurate and if you want to take a look just tell me how can I uploaded them to you.

 

[LouLong]

Iron, railraod and swordsman : do you have the latest version ? Because I reuploaded a new v1.2 after 6 downloads. Swordsman is OK (I tested it), railroad is pushed back to future tech which is not available. And what is exactly the problem you have with "iron" left ?

I can not consider it because the Civ3 engine simply does not allow it ! It would need events/macros and that we don't have in Civ 3.

Lead dummies : you mean small lead figures ? For units ? You can post them here but the scenario already has a lot of units and I am not sure a unit designer would make much more but maybe there will be a very nice one really worth doing so we can try that. If you are speaking about something else please explain ...

 

[eddie_verdde]

Ok, RR/iron/swordsman problems solved


About the "lead dummies", yes, they're small lead figures, don't know if that will work in 2D...

I'm making a few changes in your map, I must say it looks much more accurate now, specially in the Western coast. I corrected the location of some cities, rivers and I added a few geographical features. I'm not used to work with the editor, though, so I can't find a way of adding more than 1 building to a city, how can I do that? For instance, I select "walls" and I confirm, then I select "church" and confirm but only the latter remains.

I will upload the pictures of the lead figures soon. Now, here's the new map:

 

[LouLong]

Ctrl - click will do to select mutliple buildings in one city !

Taking a look at your map.

 

[eddie_verdde]

I had tried Shift - click, never thought of trying Ctrl

Hope you agree on the changes I made to the map. I removed Setubal because Alcacer is very near Setubal and was a more important city at those times. Evora was wrongly placed in your map so I moved it to the left. I also moved Santarem because it is located on right bank of the Tage, like Lisboa. When Count Henry inherited the Portuguese County, Santarem was in a strategic point, because it was on the border between Portuguese and Muslim (Christians to the North of the Tage and Muslims to the South).

Although Coimbra isn't actually located on the coast, it is very near the coast, and by placing it on the coast, Portugal can take advantage on its special ability: Seafaring.

The Leon city called Tuy is actually crossed by the river Minho. I changed the name of Faro to Tavira because Faro is actually a bit more to the left, and the location you placed it in is actually the location a another important city back then called Tavira.

I also moved Badajoz and I addedmorehills to the region near the river Douro (near Porto).

I think the region between Porto, Viseu and Coimbra definitely needs more forests.

Just for fun, here's one of my lead figures:

 

[highfidel]

Hello,

Where can I find the BIQ-file ? It says that version 1.0 and 1.1 are removed after downloads. And that there should be a 1.2 somewhere ?

Hope to play your scenario as the dutch.

Highfidel

 

[LouLong]

The Dutch ????

ok, first thing the biq is located with the patch bottom of second post, and you must also download the main art file in the same post.

But this scenario is about the Reconquista in Spain and there are NO Dutch.

Maybe you are thinking about the Great Armada (which includes the Dutch) and that can be found here :
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=104091

 

[gwn]

I'm currently playing using v1.2

I prefer road movement of 1/3 instead of 1/4 because cavalry is too powerful with 1/4
Also I like Huesca being the capital of Aragon, since as I said before, it was its capital for a time. I understand Navarra would be too small without Jaca, so it can stand like now. While Huesca was the capital of Aragon, Jaca was also a part of Aragon, but the scenario is more balanced like that.
Only thing I would like to improve is the location od Segovia (better 2 tiles south) and Soria (better 2 tiles east).
For now, it's all. When I play more, I will submit more commentaries.

Continue like that, it's a fine scenario.

 

[LouLong]

Thanks !

I am working on finishing the tech-tree (Muslims + I added another one for the Christians) and correcting many small bugs (at the moment most graphical ones have been corrected). I will also add proper gfx (including the city queue) for many buildings so that will be a BIG update. Some geographical changes too (thanks to you and eddie verde) BUT with the limitation I want frontiers to "look" ok.

But before that I would also need precise reports on balance and strategies used as well as the global evolution of the map during the scenario. At the moment I am targeting an almost complete conquest of the Almoravids by the Almohads/Nasrids around 1150 (since they controlled the Muslim part of the peninsula in 1147) which would be kind of accurate. And maybe instead of doing a Taifa version I will just add the taifa of Zaragossa in locked war with Almoravids which could force the Almoravids to go north (after all their invasion happened in 1186) and create a buffer/prey state for Aragon/Navarra/Castilla that otherwise wait a while before daring attack the Almoravids.

 

[LouLong]

REPORTS NEEDED

Considering the number of downloads of this beta I would expect some more feedback and since it is still only a beta I actually need reports before I release the next version.

So please : "to your keyboards" !

Note : I won't release The Boer War beta before I actually have more reports on Reconquista. (hint, Yoda, hint )

 

[Yoda Power]

Note : I won't release The Boer War beta before I actually have more reports on Reconquista. (hint, Yoda, hint )

Well I would love to play it some more, but you tell that to my biology/chemistry/physics/danish/math/english teachers

Damn teachers, they are so stupid, all of them

 

[LouLong]

I totally agree !
And you don't need lessons anyway, so come and try your luck with my latest quizz, we really need a Scandinavian as nobody seems to know anything about piracy in the Baltic.

 

[Balam]

A great scenario--congrats. I just played Leon on Regent and am about to win. I had played it once before, as Aragon on Monarch, but didn't/couldn't win there--I ran into the same cultural problem described above with the Almoravids getting too much too quickly. On Regent, I changed the rules slightly to get rid of the Almohad/Nasrid locked alliance and I think that might be somewhat better.

I did that because it is basically impossible for any of the Christian kingdoms to play the Muslim kingdoms against one another (which I think they did). So with the locked alliance, I convinced the Nasrids to attack the Almohads (using MPP, heheh), but when I tried fighting the Almohads the Nasrids attacked me anyway. If you decide to change that alliance, I would highly recommend making the Almohads and Nasrids more aggressive--in my Regent game the Almoravids repulsed the Almohads easily (as Leon, I attacked and absorbed Castile very early, then waited for Almohads to lose, then attacked Almoravids and absorbed them), and the Nasrids were the only ones doing any damage in the south. This might make the south more of a hell-hole without making it impossible for people to fight one another. Just a suggestion.

BTW, the razing is fine--on Regent and Monarch this cleaned up the board a bit and made things interesting...

Great scenario, I'm going to keep playing it for a long time...

 

[Poser2U]

Asked for the latest complains here they are:



The following is what I would like to see corrected:

-> Change the name of the Portuguese city of Coïmbra to Coimbra (it's not a -ï- it is written with an -i-)

Most of the following I found mainly throught the game editor after I see something strange in game

-> The Portuguese in the Civilopedia under the Tribes description say that they are "expansionist and religious", but if you start a game with the it says that they are "expansionist, religious and seafaring"

-> After I look in the Civ3QEdit I saw that the Portuguese had bonus in:
Expansionist
Religious
Seafaring
Catholic
Land
Maritime
and Religious again (why the double religious bonus ?)

No other civs has so many bonus either.

I found this because the harbor cost was half of what I was expecting (well the seafaring now explains it)

-> I think that the previous (3A.2D.2M) "Cruzades" for 12 were already a bargain now at 4A.2D.2M I can say that they are at least broken.

And who would build Feudal Knights for 42 when you can have the almost same for 12.
(Ok they can't be upgraded and you must research the "Cruzades" tech)
But it takes 7 turns to Portugal to research Cruzades if you do the right trades in Demigod Level.
(Poor Muslims)

I also played a little Portugal in Deity.

Indeed if you do the right moves Portugal can also get Feudalism on the 1st turn and sell it for profit
You'll end with
lots of gold ~400 , 2 luxuries, 8 slave workers
(and a tribute of some civs 2-3, also be paying a huge tribute of 31-35 gold per turn)

By the way why does Aragon have 2 workers in Demigod and 4 workers in Deity (they end Portuguese slaves after Portugal sells Feudalism to them)
Valencia AI also gets more workers in Deity, but since Valencia starts with Feudalism and it isn't worth to pay gold for them (better to save the gold to research faster or buy Cruzade tech).

Ok there was a small price to pay (I stop playing after the Feudalism problem so I don't know if in Deity it will be to dangereous to give all the christian AI Feudalism once it gets corrected)

-> Who was been playing with Feudalism and doesn't complain that the unit cost is way to large ?

Well I found that Feudalism is horrible for unit support.
I noticed it right after the anarchy ended.

It's not 5.3.1. like it says in the Civilopedia.
The Civ3QEdit says it's 2.2.1
I stop playing after the revolution of the Early Monarchy to Feudalism

-> Workers can't plant forests.
One king in Portugal became famous because he ordered the plantation of a pine forest ("Pinhal de Leiria"), Some say that it was important for the subsequent naval expansionism.
My advise is to make it part "The Reconquista-2nd research window" so it only be available for a decently developed civilization (Portugal had already established its final borders when this happened late 1200ish I think).
It might not have a significant strategic use by that stage, but it will be cool in terms of history.

 

[LouLong]

A great scenario--congrats. I just played Leon on Regent and am about to win. I had played it once before, as Aragon on Monarch, but didn't/couldn't win there--I ran into the same cultural problem described above with the Almoravids getting too much too quickly. On Regent, I changed the rules slightly to get rid of the Almohad/Nasrid locked alliance and I think that might be somewhat better.

I did that because it is basically impossible for any of the Christian kingdoms to play the Muslim kingdoms against one another (which I think they did). So with the locked alliance, I convinced the Nasrids to attack the Almohads (using MPP, heheh), but when I tried fighting the Almohads the Nasrids attacked me anyway. If you decide to change that alliance, I would highly recommend making the Almohads and Nasrids more aggressive--in my Regent game the Almoravids repulsed the Almohads easily (as Leon, I attacked and absorbed Castile very early, then waited for Almohads to lose, then attacked Almoravids and absorbed them), and the Nasrids were the only ones doing any damage in the south. This might make the south more of a hell-hole without making it impossible for people to fight one another. Just a suggestion.

BTW, the razing is fine--on Regent and Monarch this cleaned up the board a bit and made things interesting...

Great scenario, I'm going to keep playing it for a long time...

Well, first : thanks for your kind comments.
I hope you will enjoy even more the complete version (there should be an update, albeit non yet the complete one, soon where Muslims have more techs and late units.

It is a possibility but I think it can be played as in history which is attacking the Almoravids who are busy against the Almohads/Nasrids then strengthening then having alliances with other Christians to attack the Almoahds who haven't usually had time to redevelop their new Spanish holdings. Try not to waste too much energy trying to "digest" other Christians as this just weakens all Chrsitians in front of the Almohads who in most of my game at Monarch level (v1.3 to come) have conquered the Almoravids by 1150, except for Saragossa which is then a nice expansion area for Castilla, Navarra or Aragon. And remember France+Navarra are in locked war against the Almohads from the beginning which is meant to limit the Almohad build up and to facilitate alliances among Christians against the Muslims (which means they usually avoid warring against one another, but definitely not all the time which is also historically correct). But I will test your version anyway.

You are right when the Almohad Empire crumbled the Chrisitans could play Muslims against one another but there is no way to represent the breaking of one civ into a few smaller civs with the current engine... (but apparently Civ4 could really help with that).

Nasrids and Almohads are usually at max aggressivity (albeit for the Nasrids I corrected that in my own biq and it was not done in the version 1.2 released here). The main reason why they seem not aggressive might be also related to the level you are playing.

Yes I think the city razing level is quite correct in the south, all the more in the new version where Nasrids actually capture the cities. But most Christian civs just destroy Almoravid cities if they start war too early when Almoravids are still powerful.
There is a (fine but annoying) way of stopping nearly all city razing though so if needed I can use it.

Stay tuned ! And write as many reports as you want/can ! (precising level and civ played,...).

 

[LouLong]

Poser2U :

well, thanks for the feedback.

- Coimbra : done for the newt version already.

- Portuguese and pedia : first I admit I kept the existing pedia for Portuguese and Spain (Castilla) and I confess I completely forgot they had these things written in the pedia. Will correct.
About the "bonus". Religious, Seafaring and Expansionist are standard traits, albeit I need to change these traits in the pedia (cf above). The others are flavors. So religious here is a flavor for the techs. It means some techs are easier to research than others. All techs have their flavors which altogether makes civs a bit different from one another in tech-researching behavior and hence in their improvements, units,... Small discrepancies over the whole game but sometimes interesting.

Religious is for Portugal and Spain for instance and makes the research of military orders (and national ones such as Aviz,...) easier while maritime makes some civs more prone to research naval techs and build better ships (Aragon and Portugal for instance). I might have chosen poorly the name of the "religious" flavor but it has no effect on traits (albeit the first has). And indeed Portugal has many flavors but because I thought that fitted with them. It is not a problem of balance only but of the general features of a civ (and Portugal was gifted then). Now you can disagree about these bonus and I will listen to your counter-proposals or critics and can accept them. And these flavors are not like traits so they are not game-breakers.

- Crusaders : might have been a bad move on my part. First crusaders have a 1HP malus and since there are no barracks when they can be built their 2HP make them vulnerable. 2/ Don't know if it is the reason but the AI never (or hardly) built them... I tried to make them more interesting but indeed they are too cheap now. 3/ so I need to spend some time testing different stats so that they are neither dirt cheap nor too weak.

- Portugal on the first turn : here there is not much I can do. Most scenarios have that problem. Basically it is fairer not to initiate diplomacy with AIs on the first turn. Of course it is not like in the Napoleonic conquest where you can win on the second turn but it is a very common bug in scenarios apparently coming from the engine itself. So wait one turn, that is the only thing that can change something.

- Number of workers : not sure. It is probably related to level bonus which is something I haven't touched. I will take a look to see if I can do something about it. I cannot say it can be done though.

- Feudalism and upkeep : I changed some things without modifying the pedia. Before Feudalism was much too easy which meant civs (including me as a player) did not really see the need of changin government to Monarchy. Might need to rebalance it slightly in favor of Feudalism though.

- Workers and forests : did not know but makes sense (thought it would start later (XVI-XVIIth centuries). I will try to find a place and add it (albeit it will require some time).

 

[Balam]

Ah, so that was the problem with my Monarch game--I did wind up trying to gobble up Christian civs. I was playing Aragon on Monarch and gobbled up Valencia and Castile while attacking Almoravids too--took about half the board, but by that time the Almohads had taken the south and solidified their cities. I could have beaten them too, but their victory point level was too high by that point. My regent game also ended about mid-way through the turn cycle (that time I won, with France and Navarra loving me, Porto liking me, and Provence, african Almohads hating me--everyone else was dead. No, wait, Valencia still had one city, hehe). Maybe less victory point locations or decreasing amount of VP amassed per turn might work (I don't even know if you can do that)?

Still a really fun scenario. Leon I think is easiest on lower levels, but not effective on the uppers. I still think you might have to gobble up Valencia before attacking Almohads though--they're just too tasty to ignore (and a good place to launch attacks on that lone luxuries city--can't remember the name right now)!

 

[LouLong]

Well there should not any rule to follow by the book but altogether since I tried to represent history, doing it the historical way usually pays off (at least in my games).
Anyway you cannot beat the Almoravids or the Almohads by yourself. Historically, Christian kingdoms tried to digest a small part then make peace, and usually sided with other Christians against the Muslims then turning against one another then taking another bite of the Muslims. So the important rule is to be opportunistic (does that word exist in English ?).

I can decrease the VPs per turn and I will do it. Good idea since apparently other people complained about the too-fast rise (in VPs) of Almoravids/Almohads (depending on whether the latter conquers the former easily).

As Aragon, Castilla or Navarra, best bet is to go for the cities around Zaragossa (the valley of the Ebra) after a few turns when Almoravids are sending troops to the South. Then make peace, usually they are busy enough to accept it , and indeed turn towards Valencia which is tasty ! Small power but with rich cities on the coasts and luxuries around. For Navarra it is too dangerous because it is in locked war with the Almohads and Nasrids. For Castilla it might be a bit far but for Aragon it is a pretty normal way of growing, and it is what they did in reality then turning towards the seas. Of course the Pirates will have to be taken care of...

 

[Mr2NineD9]

I am currently playing the PIRATES at regent level and I have encountered an unidentified fleet near Gibraltar. When I enslave (capture) a chebeck it then says it is a NASRID.