The Very-Many-Questions-Not-Worth-Their-Own-Thread Thread XLI
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Are you limited to prose? There are some computer games based on fairy tales now.
(not that they're violent or anything... I'm talking about fairy tale-themed solitaire games, the latest of which I opted not to get because the only good part about it is the music and the rest is just the same old repetitive stuff the company put out previously)
EDIT: There may be other non-solitaire fairy tale-themed games. I guess good doesn't triumph if the game crashes or there's a bug in it, and good definitely doesn't triumph if there's a bug in the game and rather than fixing it, the game vendor issues a coupon for a replacement game, which then expires before its stated expiry date.
No, I was just trying to establish if this is true for all Grimm tales - so as to note it down in the last part of the new seminar
It is so for all by them I have read, so it's likely for all..
The purpose of fairy tales is basically to teach a moral lesson - not quite as bash-it-over-your-head as Aesop, but still fairly obvious, while scaring the hell out of kids.No, I was just trying to establish if this is true for all Grimm tales - so as to note it down in the last part of the new seminar
Even if good wins in the Grimm tales, good has to go through a hell of a lot of nasty stuff in the process.
Ferocitus
Deity
The Pied Piper of Hamelin?
Death's Messengers: does it really have much to do with good triumphing over evil?
Death's Messengers: does it really have much to do with good triumphing over evil?
I will have a look at those
Wasn't the Pied Piper wronged? (which in other Grimm's fairytales, gives you the right to kill everyone, as long as you are human)
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
The town/council/Mayor refused to pay him the price agreed for clearing out the rats, so he charmed all the children away as well.
Ferocitus
Deity
My grandmother was German and, according to my father, she brought an old book of fairy tales to Lithuania with herI will have a look at those
Wasn't the Pied Piper wronged? (which in other Grimm's fairytales, gives you the right to kill everyone, as long as you are human)
when she moved there as a little girl. He referred to it as "Offo Pasakos", Stories by Offo. It has taken me nearly
30 years to track them down because I never saw the title written down.
There are 10 stories in the book Der Struwwelpeter ("shock-headed Peter" or "Shaggy Peter") by Heinrich Hoffmann.
1. Struwwelpeter describes a boy who does not groom himself properly and is consequently unpopular.
2. Die Geschichte vom bösen Friederich ("The Story of Wicked Frederick"): A violent boy terrorizes animals and people. Eventually he is bitten by a dog, who goes on to eat the boy's food while Frederick is bedridden.
3. Die gar traurige Geschichte mit dem Feuerzeug ("The Very Sad Tale with the Matches"): A girl plays with matches, accidentally ignites herself and burns to death.
4. Die Geschichte von den schwarzen Buben ("The Story of the Inky Boys"): Nikolas (or "Agrippa" in some translations)[6] catches three boys teasing a dark-skinned boy. To teach them a lesson, he dips them in black ink.
5. Die Geschichte von dem wilden Jäger ("The Story of the Wild Huntsman") is the only story not primarily focused on children. In it, a hare steals a hunter's musket and eyeglasses and begins to hunt the hunter. In the ensuing chaos, the hare's child is burned by hot coffee and the hunter falls into a well.
6. Die Geschichte vom Daumenlutscher ("The Story of the Thumb-Sucker"): A mother warns her son Konrad not to suck his thumbs. However, when she goes out of the house he resumes his thumb-sucking, until a roving tailor appears and cuts off his thumbs with giant scissors.
7. Die Geschichte vom Suppen-Kaspar ("The Story of Soup-Kaspar") begins as Kaspar (or "Augustus" in some translations), a healthy, strong boy, proclaims that he will no longer eat his soup. Over the next five days, he wastes away and dies.
8. Die Geschichte vom Zappel-Philipp ("The Story of Fidgety Philip"): A boy who won't sit still at dinner accidentally knocks all of the food onto the floor, to his parents' great displeasure.
9. Die Geschichte von Hans Guck-in-die-Luft ("The Story of Johnny Look-In-The-Air") concerns a boy who habitually fails to watch where he's walking. One day he walks into a river; he is soon rescued, but his writing-book drifts away.
10. Die Geschichte vom fliegenden Robert ("The Story of Flying Robert"): A boy goes outside during a storm. The wind catches his umbrella and lifts him high into the air. The story ends with the boy sailing into the distance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struwwelpeter
Kit and I are almost certain we've heard stories with travelling tailors cutting off thumbs before. Hoffmann's tales were 1st published in 1845, well after Grimm's first collection, so you might something like that in your Grimm reaping.
One of the SCA feasts I organized had the Pied Piper as the theme. The story was a little different in our case, though. We decided that since the Piper wasn't paid, he just charmed the rats right back where he found them, and charmed a bunch of other rodents in the vicinity, too.I will have a look at those
Wasn't the Pied Piper wronged? (which in other Grimm's fairytales, gives you the right to kill everyone, as long as you are human)
So the Shire of Bitter End (our SCA branch) was overrun with rodents of various species that ate us out of house, home, and communal kitchen. But we had a feast to put on for the annual Silver Arrow archery competition and we just had to make do with what was at hand... stone soup, mud pie, rats' tails, rocks, mice, etc.
It was all real food, but it was fun watching the guests reading the menus and wondering WTH they were actually going to be eating.
Then, when they saw some of the dishes, a couple of them grabbed their very anachronistic 20th century cameras and started taking pictures.
Qactus
Romani ite domum
Oh, Grimm's tales initially included a lot of brutal stuff, too. Some of it got removed later.
Have a look at this one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Some_Children_Played_at_Slaughtering
Sounds like a nuclear family version of Hamlet (nobody survives in that, either).
At least in the Grimm stories I read, as long as the person is human, they can and will usually destroy others if they are even slightly wronged. The same is not the case if you aren't human - then no one seems obligated to keep their word to you, and can explain that away by ethics (you asked for something very ignoble etc).
Even if the non-human entity didn't ask for anything terrible, the human agent (who promised to grant the wish in return for services given) can later on turn them down (this happens, at first, in the story of the frog-prince).
Contrast to Andersen's tales, where the good character can die, just because they are poor (the little girl with matches), or even capriciously be thrown to the flames, after being so valiant (the tin soldier)
Even if the non-human entity didn't ask for anything terrible, the human agent (who promised to grant the wish in return for services given) can later on turn them down (this happens, at first, in the story of the frog-prince).
Contrast to Andersen's tales, where the good character can die, just because they are poor (the little girl with matches), or even capriciously be thrown to the flames, after being so valiant (the tin soldier)
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I am sure this would have frightened most children ^_^
That thing came out of nowhere and looks like it means business.
Samez
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So you know Max& Moritz by Wilhelm Busch?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_and_Moritz
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_and_Moritz
Ferocitus
Deity
There are some interesting insights into the Grimm stories in this podcast.At least in the Grimm stories I read, as long as the person is human, they can and will usually destroy others if they are even slightly wronged. The same is not the case if you aren't human - then no one seems obligated to keep their word to you, and can explain that away by ethics (you asked for something very ignoble etc).
Even if the non-human entity didn't ask for anything terrible, the human agent (who promised to grant the wish in return for services given) can later on turn them down (this happens, at first, in the story of the frog-prince).
Contrast to Andersen's tales, where the good character can die, just because they are poor (the little girl with matches), or even capriciously be thrown to the flames, after being so valiant (the tin soldier)
The podcast contains another story, "Feisty Melvyn", in which a BBC presenter doggedly persists with his accusation of deliberate deception by the Grimms.
I had not thought of that, but you could be right.
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