The Wall Street Occupation Part 2

Police action is radicalizing me. I'm surprised by the lack of outrage at the extreme responses we're seeing coming from authorities. If we find out the UCB student who was shot by cops last week wasn't waving around a gun like they claimed, mere days after a national editorial asked when the UCPD would kill a UCB student, the lid better blow.
 
Police action is radicalizing me. I'm surprised by the lack of outrage at the extreme responses we're seeing coming from authorities. If we find out the UCB student who was shot by cops last week wasn't waving around a gun like they claimed, mere days after a national editorial asked when the UCPD would kill a UCB student, the lid better blow.

Did you know any of the students who were involved?

Also, WE NEED TO MEET UP. You still in town?

--

Edit: Cutlass, you have a good point. My main argument is that cash transfers, either in the form of a guaranteed minimum income or the EITC, are better targeted at actually helping poor households than minimum wage laws.
 
Edit: Cutlass, you have a good point. My main argument is that cash transfers, either in the form of a guaranteed minimum income or the EITC, are better targeted at actually helping poor households than minimum wage laws.

But we've determined in the past ( IIRC, Cheezy made the argument) that it isn't the minimum wage earner that really benefits and needs the minimum wage, it's the larger number of workers one and 2 steps above the minimum wage worker.

Higher wages place the burden on the employer. Employers control the productivity of their workers. EITC places the burden on the taxpayers (with the inevitable dead weight loss).
 
Police action is radicalizing me. I'm surprised by the lack of outrage at the extreme responses we're seeing coming from authorities. If we find out the UCB student who was shot by cops last week wasn't waving around a gun like they claimed, mere days after a national editorial asked when the UCPD would kill a UCB student, the lid better blow.

Reason for lack of response from me on this specific issue: I had no idea this happened. I'm not sure who else did.
 
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I think you're being a bit too critical on some of these demands:

"Yawn. We have Obamacare, what more do you want?"

Something comparable to any other western country?

":rotfl:"

I don't see free college education as all that unreasonable, you just have to make it more merit based, so if you don't do well enough on standardized tests, you're not going to college.


Eh... that's actually as far in your post as I'd gotten when I started this one, and then I didn't find anything else to respond to.
 
A few of those things are horribly at odds with each other.

On top of what Integral said about out the disconnect between protectionism for goods but unfettered labor movement, there is the disconnect between whining about unfair competition between developing world and US workers. They blame their lack of competitiveness on the developing world laborers undercutting them and then demand a $20 minimum wage? Yeah, that will surely help keep jobs here, and with every laborer flooding into the new open migration state to fight for those jobs I am sure the labor market will be wide open.

A heads up, a $20 minimum wage means every full time worker (40 hours) would be raking in just shy of 39K a year. I would quit my job and flip burgers in a heartbeat.

Then there is that bit about dismantling the fossil fuel economy while abolishing nuclear power ******edness again.
 
Police action is radicalizing me. I'm surprised by the lack of outrage at the extreme responses we're seeing coming from authorities. If we find out the UCB student who was shot by cops last week wasn't waving around a gun like they claimed, mere days after a national editorial asked when the UCPD would kill a UCB student, the lid better blow.

I've basically stopped following the news lately, so I haven't followed any of the OWS stuff, but I don't really understand the need for police action.

Are they causing any problems? If they're just camping in parks, ignore them, and they'll get bored eventually.
 
They have moved to starting bonfires in (Oakland) and physically blocking major transport sites in efforts to shut down cities. Apparently we are to listen to them or else.
 
Here's something interesting. So not only do Tea Partiers and Occupiers find common ground, but we get some insight into the Occupy frame-of-mind when it comes to making demands.

Also remember that an "official" list of demands has yet to be drafted and that being discussed in the thread was pretty much the brainchild of a single Occupier, and definitely does not speak for the entire movement.
 
Police action is radicalizing me. I'm surprised by the lack of outrage at the extreme responses we're seeing coming from authorities. If we find out the UCB student who was shot by cops last week wasn't waving around a gun like they claimed, mere days after a national editorial asked when the UCPD would kill a UCB student, the lid better blow.


Link to video.

Article

BERKELEY, Calif. - Dozens of people were arrested during Occupy demonstrations at the University of California, Berkeley campus, as authorities twice clashed with protesters trying to set up encampments.

The bulk of the arrests came Wednesday night, as authorities in riot gear confronted demonstrators.

Television news footage from outside the university's main administration building showed officers pulling people from the steps and nudging others with batons as the crowd chanted, "We are the 99 percent!" and "Stop Beating Students!"

Thirty-two people were arrested on suspicion of resisting and delaying police officers and failing to disperse, UC Berkeley police Lt. Alex Yao told the Daily Californian, which live blogged the events. They were sent to Glenn E. Dyer Detention Facility in Oakland for processing. Just before midnight Thursday, Yao said 39 protesters had been arrested so far.

University police didn't immediately return calls from The Associated Press.

The officers eventually formed a perimeter around the steps of the building.

As the evening wore on, the crowd swelled as protesters debated whether to stay overnight.

The university reported earlier that an administrator had told the protesters they could stay around the clock for a week, but only if they didn't pitch tents or use stoves or other items that would suggest people were sleeping there.

The protesters voted not to comply with the demand and to go ahead with setting up a tent site they dubbed "Occupy Cal" to protest financial policies they blame for causing deep cuts in higher education spending.

Earlier in the day, campus police assisted by Alameda County deputies dismantled a small encampment students had set up near Sproul Hall despite official warnings that such encampments would not be allowed.

University officials said seven people -- six students and one faculty member -- were arrested during that clash on charges of resisting and delaying peace officers in the performance of their duties and/or failure to disperse.

One of the seven was also charged with striking an officer.

The move to create a campus off-shoot of the Occupy Wall Street camps around the country came after hundreds of students, teachers and Berkeley residents rallied on campus before marching peacefully to a Bank of America branch.

At one point, Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs Harry Le Grande came out to negotiate, telling camp participants they could stay but only with certain conditions, such as not sleeping at the site, using sound amplifiers or fires. According to the Daily Californian, Le Grande said if any rules were broken, a 10-minute warning would be given before police arrived.

"The university supports the efforts of any group to speak out freely, but everyone is expected to follow campus policies, the law, and respect the rights of others to go to class, to teach, to do their work," campus spokeswoman Janet Gilmore said.

Shadrick Small, 25, a UC Berkeley graduate student in sociology, was among the protesters trying to block police from dismantling the camp.

"It just seems unnecessary. We weren't doing anything. We were just standing there with a bunch of tents," Small said. "And their first response is just to come in and start hitting people. The reaction is just over the top."

You've really got to love the neutered journalism of modern "news" after watching that video. If those cops were "nudging" the students as the article alleges, I would hate to see an actual melee!:rolleyes:
 
I think you're being a bit too critical on some of these demands:

"Yawn. We have Obamacare, what more do you want?"

Something comparable to any other western country?

":rotfl:"

I don't see free college education as all that unreasonable, you just have to make it more merit based, so if you don't do well enough on standardized tests, you're not going to college.


Eh... that's actually as far in your post as I'd gotten when I started this one, and then I didn't find anything else to respond to.

I'm being critical because these demands are way out of line from where the movement started and from where its energies should be focused.

I'm all over merit aid for college and I've championed such programs in the past.

I think that the healthcare system is broken in this country and that we need some thing different. (However, my insurance did just cover a multi-thousand dollar set of eye treatments, so I'm not complaining too loudly!)

But those demands have no place in OWS' core message, which is (1) income inequality and (2) corporate influence in Washington.

Keep your eye on the ball. If OWS is to form a real set of grievances, it needs to focus on campaign finance and lobbying, not the hippie librul wishlist kitchen sink.
 
some of the demands are spectacular...spectacularly bad. :crazyeye: i understand the bit about including extreme demands in a negotiation so then you have something you can bargain away later, or put in extreme demands so you can adjust the "middle ground" that is more favorable to you. but the list, well, at least a third of them are unattainable now and if implemented might cause global havoc.
 
I'm down with free college educations, at least heavily subsidized, if they're for something useful that can help enhance a nation's competitiveness in the world. Engineering and mathematics ought to qualify while psychology and art probably to a lesser degree. Puppetry and film degrees not at all. Paying for college may have been viable in the 50's and 60's when a private college education was like a couple thousand dollars which was easily manageable back then even on minimum wage but now it's normal for tuition to be in the tens of thousands.

If the US is to remain competitive with the rest of the world, we need college educated kids with the right degrees and I really don't see anyway to do so without such a measure.
 
if we're allowed to continue the discussions that were cut in part 1 of this thread, i'd like to direct you there so you can see and read that indeed the video cannot be trusted (although the one you posted is uncut) because Russia Today aired it. at least that's the impression i get from what others have said. :)
 
Except that this video is not that video. This one was, presumably, shot by someone on site there, a citizen like anyone else.
 
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