And I see what you're saying, but this time it doesn't apply.I share your overall point of view Ziggy
You are talking about the way both sides see the issue of abortion. And how it's irreconcilable to one side when it considers it murder. I realise all that.
Ok, lets look at some quotes and have a talk about treating both sides fairly.but I still want the other side to be treated fairly.
Why?So if that is the argument of pro-life, I think the honest thing to do would be to focus on that
Why do the pro-life side get to dominate the framework in which the debate is held?
Starting with the "pro-abortion" denomination. Reading that, I didn't think that's very fair.Of course, as always, the pro-abortion tries to make abortion about women's rights while ignoring their opponents argument that it is murder. Please argue against "abortion is murder" which the pro-life side is bringing up instead of changing the discussion to women's rights.
Second. CE is wondering why we're not arguing against "abortion is murder". In effect he's asking: why are you pro-abortion guys not letting us anti-choice (childish, I know) people not dominate the debate? Please let us dominate the debate.
So I showed him why. If you focus the discussion on murder, the pro-life comes away wanting. Because it's the opinion: "Abortion is Murder" vs the fact "No, it isn't". End of discussion. Why aren't I focussing on it? Because it's a useless and fruitless discussion.
No it isn't.
Prove me wrong.
No you didn't.
Yes I did.
Another reason why I refuse to discuss this on terms of "Abortion is murder" is that by using their standards on my position, I condone murder. And that's the real reason this always comes down to discussion whether it's murder or not.
The solution is dead easy. And fairly obvious.
Pro-lifers who feel "abortion is murder". You read their arguments in the light of that sentiment. This will make you understand the points they raise. You will also understand they're not misogynist. Because that would be doing what CE did in reverse. Attributing pro-choice sentiments to the pro-life argument.
You extend the same courtesy to pro-choice people. You read their arguments with the knowledge they don't see abortion as murder.
If you want any kind of discussion taking place on this subject, you'd do well not to start with accusing the other side of avoiding the issue of murder when that side doesn't even consider that an issue to avoid and vice versa.
That is treating both sides fairly. Looking at their arguments in light of their position. Not picking one of the positions and claiming the whole argument has to be geared towards that.