The Word "Vagina" Is Now Apparently Banned In The Michigan Legislature

[Formaldehyde]

$1 million isn't "common" at all. The minimum for passenger cars is usually $50K and most affluent people have 100/300/50K.

Insurance rates are also radically different based on how many possible claims there might be. Requiring liability insurance for abortion clinics where there was none before may cause nuisance lawsuits to skyrocket.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Please argue against "abortion is murder" which the pro-life side is bringing up

It isn't murder.

Well, that was constructive. I'm glad we had this discussion.

 

[CELTICEMPIRE]

It isn't murder.

It is, It is the destruction of a human being that has all the genetic materials that it will have as an adult, the only difference between it and a born human is bodily development. Prove me wrong.

 

[holy king]

Of course, as always, the pro-abortion anti abortion tries to make abortion about women's rights murder while ignoring their opponents argument that it is murder about women's rights. Please argue against "abortion is murder" a woman's right which the pro-life pro-choice side is bringing up instead of changing the discussion to women's rights murder.

5chairs

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It is, It is the destruction of a human being that has all the genetic materials that it will have as an adult, the only difference between it and a born human is bodily development. Prove me wrong.

Murder still is the unlawful killing of another person.

It fails on two accounts.

 

[Formaldehyde]

It is, It is the destruction of a human being that has all the genetic materials that it will have as an adult, the only difference between it and a born human is bodily development. Prove me wrong.

"Prove" that you are right. Given that abortion is not considered to be "murder" in any modern country on the planet suggests just the opposite is actually true.

 

[Traitorfish]

Is CelticEmpire actually getting paid by the de-rail?

 

[vypernight]

...Pardon me?

'Politically Correct.' Now I'm not saying my situation was the same; I was just venting because it happened about the same time. People freak out at words instead of focussing on what's really important, like the fact that they're trying to taking rights from women.

All the talk about, 'Life is sacred,' is a bunch of bull. They don't give a $%#@ about life. They're just looking for ways to push their own agenda. It's not much different than people using their interpretations of religion to slam same-sex rights because it's easier than saying, "I don't like it. It's icky."

 

[Zelig]

$1 million isn't "common" at all. The minimum for passenger cars is usually $50K and most affluent people have 100/300/50K.

Insurance rates are also radically different based on how many possible claims there might be. Requiring liability insurance for abortion clinics where there was none before may cause nuisance lawsuits to skyrocket.

$1 million is common is common in Canada, with most provinces having a minimum of $200k, with one having a minimum of $500k, and the rates aren't exorbitant. (For $1 million liability, I've paid as little as $500/yr.)

 

[shadowplay]

Link to video.

 

[useless]

How can you say abortion isn't a womans' rights issue? Since just to let you know CELTIC, women have wombs, whilst men do not. It is also an issue of bodily autonomy

 

[holy king]

Link to video.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I want to be a woman. Prove me wrong.

 

[Andvare]

It is, It is the destruction of a human being that has all the genetic materials that it will have as an adult, the only difference between it and a born human is bodily development. Prove me wrong.

So, stemcell research is murder?

I guess that you are against all kind of transplant surgery?

And how come your definition of what is a human being is the one that should be used? Any other definition would in itself be a proof.

Also, I take offence that you think my mental capabilities are non existent. Of course, you claim yours are as well, but that I leave up to you, and though it sometimes seems the human race does have some basic problems with their metal function, isn't it a bit harsh to claim that the whole human race have an IQ of less that a fern?
Unless, of course, you lump that in with "bodily development", which brings us back to the problem with definition again, oh, and biology.
A foetus* have the potential to become a human being in the same sense as you or me, but it certainly isn't a given. Just like a at-conception-first-cell has the potential to become something definitely not human, or just someone with more or less chromosomes than I have.
Of course, the whole definition over a human being being defined by its genetic material might mean that I'm not a human being, because I have less genes than any woman does (so do you, if you are, as I assume, a male), not counting telomere decay nor any of the chromosome abnormalities.


*Sorry, British English user here.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

5chairs

If abortion in deed was murder, women right were rather irrelevant, don't you agree? In this sense, CE has a point in so far as that arguing against abortion is murder with "But women rights" is no argument at all. But arguing against women rights with "But it is murder" is.

Also: I see no chairs!

 

[downtown]

$1 million is common is common in Canada, with most provinces having a minimum of $200k, with one having a minimum of $500k, and the rates aren't exorbitant. (For $1 million liability, I've paid as little as $500/yr.)

I think 100/300 is the more common. The company I worked for required that, and I'd say at least 80% of the candidates I spoke to were carrying at least 100/300...and I was calling into rural Arkansas, not Manhattan. It wasn't too unusual to see million dollar policies though.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

If abortion in deed was murder, women right were rather irrelevant, don't you agree? In this sense, CE has a point in so far as that arguing against abortion is murder with "But women rights" is no argument at all. But arguing against women rights with "But it is murder" is.

Bolded the important bit. CE can't be any more wrong since the assumption "abortion is murder" is objectively false. He can be off the opinion that it should be unlawful and we all should consider the foetus to be a person, then he should argue it should be murder.

But. It. Isn't.

So CE wondered, why aren't pro-choice, who he also wrongly calls "pro-abortion", people not focussing on the "abortion is murder" side of the story, it's because it isn't. He doesn't set the boundaries of the discussion based on his subjective desires and religious input dressed up in an objective clown costume. He just has his opinion which is mainly based on repetition. And his opinion is opposite to the definition of murder and to what the law says.

 

[Traitorfish]

'Politically Correct.'

No, I got that, I just didn't think that people getting prissy about words like "vagina" or "lube" typically fell under the heading of political correctness.

If abortion in deed was murder, women right were rather irrelevant, don't you agree?

It's not self-evident. Most of us accept murder in certain circumstances- self-defence, for example- so it's entirely plausible that we could accept abortions as morally acceptable even if it was also considered "murder". It's just a classification, after all, it's not a moral conclusion in itself.

 

[Arakhor]

We are at war and war has already been declared on those who cannot fight back. We are fighting for those who cannot themselves fight.

Support rights for vaginas now!

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Bolded the important bit. CE can't be any more wrong since the assumption "abortion is murder" is objectively false. He can be off the opinion that it should be unlawful and we all should consider the foetus to be a person, then he should argue it should be murder.

I think it isn't a good idea to limit "Murder" to the legal definition, as that obviously is not meant. Unless I am off, as I see understand the word "Murder", it commonly is understood as intentionally killing another person. And it is commonly understood that this is in itself really really wrong. If you translate this to abortion, you are essentially saying that it was just as bad to kill your neighbor than to abort a fetus. So if that is the argument of pro-life, I think the honest thing to do would be to focus on that. Because it then comes down to either being murder (and hence hardly justifiable by a women feeling betrayed in her rights) or not being murder, or something in between, where women rights may become significant again. The point is, before one has established what abortion really constitutes, women rights are rather useless as an argument and only serve to derail.

I share your overall point of view Ziggy, but I still want the other side to be treated fairly.
@Traitorfish
Well I didn't argue that murder can not possibly be justified. I argued that the stipulation that a woman had the right to choose weather not she wanted to carry a baby, can't. One just has to realize that otherwise one would argue that some discomfort is enough justification to kill if there is no other way. Nevermind if the one being killed had any choice in the matter for causing this discomfort.