FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
Thats why God created the crusades, so that people could be forgiven. (with the occasionally over enthusiastic and idiotic slaughter of fellow christians)
Theology: Can the Devil have forgiveness?
- Thread starter Cheetah
- Start date
Thats why God created the crusades, so that people could be forgiven. (with the occasionally over enthusiastic and idiotic slaughter of fellow christians)
Integral
Can't you hear it?
Remember, there's not a shred of Biblical evidence that the Devil runs Hell.
Of course the Biblical idea of Satan, who he is, his role, and his relationship to God change a bit throughout the Scriptures. In Job, Satan is allowed to go back and forth from Heaven / the presence of God with relative ease.
GhostWriter16
Deity
We don't claim Dante was right at all... but besides, since knowing what Hell looks like is not a prerequesite for Salvation, it doesn't have to be in Scripture. Scripture tells us all things we need to know to find Salvation.
GhostWriter16
Deity
The Bible talks quite clearly about Hell:
http://niv.scripturetext.com/revelation/20.htm
Hell is real (and the Devil can never escape it) but Dante's vision specifically isn't in the Bible.
Berzerker
Deity
Dante's cosmology had 9 levels, Chichen Itza represents Toltec cosmology and has 9 levels - the 9 "Lords of the Night".
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
The 9 "levels" of Paradise did not represent a physical hierarchy, where the Primum Mobile was further from Earth than the Moon was, it was shown to Dante the Pilgrim in that way so that he could understand the concept at work; namely, that differently pure souls were capable of different levels of bliss, according to how holy they were. Each soul basked in an equal Beatific Vision, but it took a bit more or less between souls for them to "appreciate it" equally, and in reality, there was no segregation of souls.
_random_
Jewel Runner
Also, Dante's contact with the Mayans was pretty limited.
I dont think there is a Devil, being contradictory to God. But there seem to be plenty of Evil/Hostile beings who fight the Devas (divine beings, demigods) and who exercise they influence over Earth as well.
When we all accept Jesus (Love) the Kingdom of Heaven would be on approach everywhere, I suppose.
Maybe he should stick to his Sumerian-Jewish theories.
Allegories of suspect canonicity aside, where does the Bible define the lake of fire as Hell?
kochman
Deity
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2009
- Messages
- 10,818
Ummm, he gave you the verse right in the very post?!
For more... use the following...
www.google.com
You can come up with something like this...
http://www.openbible.info/topics/lake_of_fire
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
Unless you think John of Patmos was a nutter in a cave, making stuff up as he went along.
Well, Beelzebub is the prince of demons, and can apparently order them around
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
My guess would be that God offers forgiveness every being that chooses to repent, including the devil himself. Satan however will never choose to repent, and so damns himself.
That mentions the lake of fire, but given that the Bible mentions Hell as well, I was wanting to see if a literal case could be made for the lake of fire being Hell.
My impression is that the 'lake of fire' is what's used to destroy evil souls during the End Times, and that it's a separate area from what is 'currently' considered Hell.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
The Lake of Fire is the Second Death. In my opinion it makes more sense for this to be annihilation than eternal torment. The terms commonly taken to mean it lasts forever were also used to describe the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, which are not still burning.
The bible does not exactly mention Hell. It mentions Hades and Gehenna. Gehenna is literally Jerusalem's garbage dump/open pit trash incinerator, and was probably used as a metaphor for complete destruction. I consider Gehenna and the Lake of Fire to refer to the same thing.
Hades literally means "the unseen," and commonly referred to everything hidden under the surface of the earth. It includes not only the mythological realm of the dead, but also the places where minerals are mined and where seeds are planted. It is not necessary to assume that it refers to some place in the spirit world where the soul is tortured, when it could just as easily just mean the grave where dead bodies are buried.
The word Hell is a cognate of the word Cellar, and originally had the meaning of a place underground where things were stored. It is a very close synonym with Hades, but I avoid it because of the connotations it has acquired.
The bible does not exactly mention Hell. It mentions Hades and Gehenna. Gehenna is literally Jerusalem's garbage dump/open pit trash incinerator, and was probably used as a metaphor for complete destruction. I consider Gehenna and the Lake of Fire to refer to the same thing.
Hades literally means "the unseen," and commonly referred to everything hidden under the surface of the earth. It includes not only the mythological realm of the dead, but also the places where minerals are mined and where seeds are planted. It is not necessary to assume that it refers to some place in the spirit world where the soul is tortured, when it could just as easily just mean the grave where dead bodies are buried.
The word Hell is a cognate of the word Cellar, and originally had the meaning of a place underground where things were stored. It is a very close synonym with Hades, but I avoid it because of the connotations it has acquired.
timtofly
One Day
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2009
- Messages
- 9,445
The OT "Hell" was and still is "underground". Satan and the fallen angels are not bound there, but that was the place prepared for them to "enjoy" their existence.
One of the first punishments of "The Law" Moses spoke and the earth opened up and swallowed a group of Jews into this place of "fire" and death.
Dead souls were sent there, and there was a division between those who accepted God and those who refused. When Jesus gave up the Ghost, He descended into this area of the "underworld" and led those souls who had "Faith", those who obeyed God's Word and was accounted for righteousness free from the grasp of death and "hell".
Catholics have followed this seperation and called it purgatory, as in a resting place for believers until the place in Heaven was finished as a final destination. The Apostles said that now when one dies they go straight to heaven to be with Jesus and those who were freed from death's captivity. The pre-christ place was called Abraham's bossom.
At the end of time, death and hell will be cast into the eternal "lake of fire".
Yes, Satan can repent and be forgiven.
Suicide is said to be unforgiveable, because one is past the point of "asking" for forgiveness. Is it unpardonable though? I say yes, because even Satan can still be pardoned. There is pardon for those who accept (while alive) and to a degree pardon after death. The one choice that cannot be pardoned is denying the Holy Spirit. There comes a point in every person's life where refusing the Holy Spirit result's in total depravation. God will give man the choice to follow their own desires and that is the slippery slope that leads to men and angels to their own ends, and not the path that God had planned for them.
Even God can be found in hell. That is why it is not really a competition between "good" and "evil". That was what Dante, philosophy, personal opinion, and even the Devil himself want everyone to think. I suppose if one had enough pride in himself that he can do better than God, then he may not be on God's side, but that is not God's choice. God's will is that all come into His presence and give Him due benevolence. Those who put God on the pedestal of a selfish child, are free to that view, however it seems a little petty to me.
Why was God not powerful enough to stop the division? Why does God not force everything to be perfect and flawless? Why is it inherent in humans to divide into class, and all the prejudice in the world? Why is pride even allowed? Seems like there are those who think that they have the answer to these questions and deny that there is even a God.
Similar threads
- Poll
