There are more of us than there are of them

[El_Machinae]

Some of us are actually more interested in trying to keep our rights and working against those hell bent on infringing them.

I believe you.
I'm just terrifically curious as to what mechanism you're using to 'keep our rights'? I have no doubt that you're fighting, I'm just not so sure how you are doing so.

 

[Patine]

Of course they did. They were one-percenters - people with too much power and money. Something had to be done. This is a well established progressive axiom.

Oh, so the Nazis are "progressives" now, are they? Oh, yes, I'd forgotten - that's what Ann Coulter, called them - among other ridiculous things. Her less books are less coherent and factual, but just as nonsensical, vitriolic, and hate-filled, and playing upon people's frustrations and gullibility, as Mein Kampf ever was...

 

[Naskra]

Oh, so the Nazis are "progressives" now, are they?

No, they were progressive 80 years ago. Now they are terrible, awful Nazis.

 

[Zardnaar]

So the implication is what then? That all Jews own banks? Weird anti semetic flex

Depending on how you express it and when you're talking about Jews were over represented in banking and the communist party.

However it was because discrimination. Lending money with interest was illegal in Europe for centuries and then looked down on. People still don't like finance companies and Wall St.

When the Bible was written interest rates aka usary it's estimated were around 40% and failure to pay could result in debtors slavery. Not sure if Jews are supposed to lend to other Jews but Christians were fine. Usary is Haram in Islam.

The early Soviet communist party was one place Jews were relatively welcome in Tsarist Russia. IIRC it was over 20% which relative to the Jewish population was high.

 

[Naskra]

The early Soviet communist party was one place Jews were relatively welcome in Tsarist Russia. IIRC it was over 20% which relative to the Jewish population was high.

Ya, the Jewish Bolshivek angle was worked pretty hard by Hitler.

 

[Zardnaar]

Ya, the Jewish Bolshivek angle was worked pretty hard by Hitler.

Yes he wasn't wrong but Jews had it rough in Tsarist Russia. So a lot joined the Communists.

If you've heard the term beyond the pale in English the Pale was Western Russia modern Poland, Ukraine etc which they kind of got exiled to.

 

[Patine]

No, they were progressive 80 years ago. Now they are terrible, awful Nazis.

No they weren't. Not remotely so. The Lafollette political family of Wisconsin ("Fighting Bob," his brothers, and their sons), were iconic examples of 20's-40's Progressives, by the standards of the day (they were even called, and called themselves, such). They and the Nazis were NOTHING alike. Not even close.

 

[Naskra]

The Lafollette political family of Wisconsin

Wisconsin was not a place that saw any need of the charms of eugenics.

 

[Patine]

Wisconsin was not a place that saw any need of the charms of eugenics.

Eugenics are not a policy plank of Progressive ideology and thinking. They tend to only appear in various far-RIGHT-wing ethnostate, racial purity, hyper-nationalist, and irredentist ideologies (of which the Nazis were very much iconic of, but there have been quite a few other), as well as certain Social Darwinist and Technocratic ideologies, I suppose -but those tend to lack that level of political charisma and traction, by far, of the above mentioned groups, or almost any well-known socio-political movement (including properly defined Progressivism).

 

[Traitorfish]

Fwiw I couldn't really see the victim-blaming in your post. You phrased it as goyim having Jewish friends rather than the other way around so...yeah.
I'm sure there is an interesting point to be made about spatial distribution of Jewish people in pre-Holocaust Europe and all but I am not knowledgeable enough to make it.

I believe @Traitorfish not so long ago read a book on the history of the Jewish people, perhaps he could benefit us with his take at some point.

Yeah, the segregation of Eastern European society was pretty deep. There was a spatial element, of course: in towns, Jews lived in separate neighborhoods. In the countryside, they lived in their own villages, the shtetl, in a landscape of Gentile peasant villages. And of course, in Tsarist Russia, Jews were legally prohibited from settling in large parts of the empire without explicit legal permission. But additionally, and perhaps more importantly, there is economic and institutional segregation. Jews work in separate industries from Gentiles, or serve separate markets. Most tailors or garment workers were Jewish, farmers almost exclusively Gentile. Jewish and Gentile butchers served their co-religionists almost exclusively. Much of communal life, including education and almost all social services, are centred around religious institutions, and while this can introduce a certain segregation within Christian denominations, in most of Eastern Europe this appears as a stark division between Jews and their Catholic or Orthodox neighbours.

This was of course somewhat less pronounced in Central Europe due to the reduced legal disabilities placed on Jews, but it wasn't absent. Jews still mostly resided in their own neighbourhoods in towns and cities, and while there was less economic segregation, it still existed to an extent, due to a mixture of tradition, religion and discrimination. During the period immediately prior to the rise of Nazism, we also see the arrival of large numbers of "foreign" Eastern European Jews, fleeing persecution by the Tsarist regime and later by White Army forces, which lead to a starker feeling of cultural difference than would have previously existed. A commonly expressed sentiment in pre-Nazi Germany was that, while the speaker has nothing against Jews as such, they find these new Ostjuden to be, well, "insert offensive anti-Semitic remark here". This is something that the Nazis in both Germany and in Austria absolutely played on.

The barriers to personal friendship across communal lines were far more than just mutual prejudice, so it seems flippant to place the burden on dissolving those barriers on individual gestures of friendship, rather than on communal solidarity; to suggest that organised political anti-Semitism could be opposed otherwise than by organised political solidarity.

is this another patented traitorfish "the answer is international revolutionary communism" post? why, yes, it may just be!

 

[caketastydelish]

The Orcs has vastly superior numbers in Lord of the Rings but in the end it meant nothing.

 

[Patine]

The Orcs has vastly superior numbers in Lord of the Rings but in the end it meant nothing.

But J.R.R. was a Christian theologian with strong overlays of Neo-Manichaean thinking. Plus, he made very clear in his own letters to his fans that Middle-Earth, at the root of it, was not saved by great heroic, epic battles and war, or even the perilous journey to Mount Doom against all odds, but Bilbo's mercy and compassion at not killing Golem for the convenience of leaving the cave in "The Hobbit." Bad example, really...

 

[AmazonQueen]

Yes he wasn't wrong but Jews had it rough in Tsarist Russia. So a lot joined the Communists.

If you've heard the term beyond the pale in English the Pale was Western Russia modern Poland, Ukraine etc which they kind of got exiled to.

The original Pale was Dublin and the area around it which was all the English could actually extend their control to until the 17th century .

 

[Patine]

The original Pale was Dublin and the area around it which was all the English could actually extend their control to until the 17th century .

And there was another Pale, also English, from the end of the Hundred Years' War till near the end of Mary I (Bloody Mary)'s reign, which was the immediate, tiny area around the Flemish or Picard port city of Calais, in what is now Northern France, which was the Continental holding by England, and later Britain, until Gibraltar was acquired with the resolution of the War of the Spanish Succession. The loss of Calais was also a big push of the English people and culture and viewpoint that they were distinct from Continental Europeans - something that still be seen to this very day with things like Brexit and British popular media portrayals (especially in comedy) of Continental European cultures.

 

[cardgame]

Which is all just another reason to hate the French @Patine

 

[Zardnaar]

Everyone hates the French.

 

[Akka]

We hate you all back !

 

[CaptainF]

Actually it was Glenn Greenwald, Aaron Mate and Jimmy Dore who educated me about RussiaGate... Not Fox. But your non-rebuttal perfectly illustrates the problem with 'us & them', ignore facts, insult people and then accuse them of arguing in bad faith.

"I don't watch Fox News, instead I watch journalists who take money from the Russian government and who work for Russia Today, that's how I know the U.S. government is lying about Russia."

 

[Synobun]

Peak 2009 meme.

 

[cardgame]

To be fair, I haven't seen Cascadia on these forums since about then. (Welcome back Dawg)