There are more of us than there are of them

[Akka]

My wet dream is socialism, which I think is the best way of combating the alienation, isolation, and depression that leads people into the far-right.

Nice. And what is your plan to reach it ?
Let me guess, to purge all the fascists that would disagree with it ? With the nice circular reasoning "if you disagree it's because you're a fascist" ?
I don't think anything could go wrong with such a program. I mean, it would have already happened it there were a risk, wouldn't it ?

You cannot "contain" these extremists without compromising their rights and speech and are you for that? A simple yes or no will suffice my dear friend.

Already answered this question in the Why I Believe In Free Speech inc Nazis :

I don't think it's acceptable for societies that are based on equality before the law and which recognize human rights to allow open discussions on whose people it should be allowed to exterminate just because they are born.

I don't see any trolls here my friend.

Wannabe authoritarians that can't even wrap their mind around the concept that "I don't want extremists to dictate who can live depending on their political opinions", on the other hand...

 

[Farm Boy]

On average a troll doing it would not meet the definition of irony, though it depends on the specific troll.

Fresh fish is pretty yummy.

 

[Hygro]

You cannot "contain" these extremists without compromising their rights and speech and are you for that? A simple yes or no will suffice my dear friend.

What’s your plan to contain the containment?

 

[Gorbles]

Nice. And what is your plan to reach it ?
Let me guess, to purge all the fascists that would disagree with it ? With the nice circular reasoning "if you disagree it's because you're a fascist" ?
I don't think anything could go wrong with such a program. I mean, it would have already happened it there were a risk, wouldn't it ?

If you truly believe that people are labelled "fascist" (either as an adjective or as a noun) for simply disagreeing over some apparently non-fascist talking point, then I suggest you need to have a bit of quiet introspection on the "blind raving" you normally attribute to other posters. Because this just qualifies as blind raving, if its taken at face value.

I'll offer some helpful advice:

1. If you disagree with me over the fact that Matt Bellamy is a sublime musician, you're not a fascist. You're wrong, but you're not a fascist.
2. If you encourage and / or approve of the methodologies currently employed by ICE in the USA, you're likely a fascist.

For clarity, neither of these specifically aimed at you here.

 

[Lexicus]

Nice. And what is your plan to reach it ?
Let me guess, to purge all the fascists that would disagree with it ? With the nice circular reasoning "if you disagree it's because you're a fascist" ?
I don't think anything could go wrong with such a program. I mean, it would have already happened it there were a risk, wouldn't it ?

That doesn't even make any sense. If I were in a position to purge all the fascists, I would already have achieved all the power I need. Purging fascists in that case would be pointless.

I don't think it's acceptable for societies that are based on equality before the law and which recognize human rights to allow open discussions on whose people it should be allowed to exterminate just because they are born.

So what are you arguing about? Isn't your stand here just kinda performative then? And @TheMeInTeam isn't this authoritarianism?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Fresh fish is pretty yummy.

Some might go so far as to say delicious.

So what are you arguing about? Isn't your stand here just kinda performative then? And @TheMeInTeam isn't this authoritarianism?

It's a silly game you ask me to play.

In a less silly context, self-consistency of standards is how we avoid outcomes of "freedom only counts sometimes", and is how you resolve "freedom" vs "freedom of actions that deny other peoples' freedom". But whenever I push for people to pin down their own standards in self-consistent fashion, I get odd/tangential responses or outright refusal.

 

[Farm Boy]

delicious

Raw and wriggling.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Wannabe authoritarians that can't even wrap their mind around the concept that "I don't want extremists to dictate who can live depending on their political opinions", on the other hand...

A literal "first they came for the Nazis and I said nothing"

 

[Sommerswerd]

Raw and wriggling.

Rock and pool, nice and cool, so juicy sweeeeeet

 

[Farm Boy]

So metal. Doesn't even scale the thing.

 

[Traitorfish]

That doesn't even make any sense. If I were in a position to purge all the fascists, I would already have achieved all the power I need. Purging fascists in that case would be pointless.

I think that centrists genuinely believe that fascism is just a personal disposition, like being a morning person.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think that centrists genuinely believe that fascism is just a personal disposition, like being a morning person.

Real fascists are rare as proverbial faeries. I don't see fascist material here, you do see antifa, international socialists and annoying sjw types.

Saw another similar poster the other day.

Still haven't found any actual fascists. Met a Holocaust denier 15 years ago. They're so rare you basically never met them or if you do you won't know.

 

[Berzerker]

they're not too hard to find, they'll be the ones defending the free speech rights of Nazis

 

[Hygro]

I think that centrists genuinely believe that fascism is just a personal disposition, like being a morning person.

Not a centrist but yeah I think so.... good observation.

 

[Akka]

I think that centrists genuinely believe that fascism is just a personal disposition, like being a morning person.

Being an extremist is a way of processing information, yeah. Not necessarily a personal disposition, but certainly a thinking pattern. And being an extremist is absolutely not reserved to fascist, you can be an extremist in many different ways according to your personal values.

Also, "centrist" and "moderate" aren't the same thing, for the same reason : "centrist" is a political position, by opposition to "left-wing" or "right-wing". "moderate" is a thinking pattern, by opposition to "extremist".*

For a post that looks a lot like taking a shot at the way people analyze how others think, maybe it should use a good deal of what it aims to teach.

A literal "first they came for the Nazis and I said nothing"

Yeah, "breaching the basis of what allows society to work" is bad, even when it's applied to people who actually do deserve it. It's the exact same thing that means you shouldn't allow cold-blooded extra-judicial killings even when the guy is a piece of crap.

The wailing attempts to cast as "nazi supporters" people who don't follow the authoritarian tendencies of a bunch of fanatics is the same thing as calling "child molesters" people who insist on due process instead of lynching the suspected creepy guy.

In a less silly context, self-consistency of standards is how we avoid outcomes of "freedom only counts sometimes", and is how you resolve "freedom" vs "freedom of actions that deny other peoples' freedom". But whenever I push for people to pin down their own standards in self-consistent fashion, I get odd/tangential responses or outright refusal.

Pretty much sums up all the problems we have here.

 

[Lexicus]

Not a centrist but yeah I think so.... good observation.

So you're laboring under a completely false understanding of fascism, and there are 70,000 children in concentration camps and you appear more concerned with containing the containment of fascism than with containing fascism.

I confess myself... disappointed.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

they're not too hard to find, they'll be the ones defending the free speech rights of Nazis

The nazi party of Germany hasn't been active for a while.

Lots of people are called nazis without basis. If you think speech rights should be stripped based on that allegation, I welcome you to first strip your own free speech rights.

 

[Lexicus]

The nazi party of Germany hasn't been active for a while.

You know why? Because the nazi party and even the display of nazi symbols are legally banned in Germany. By your stated standards this constitutes a violation of free speech and the enforcement of a self-inconsistent standard.

 

[Farm Boy]

Not a centrist but yeah I think so.... good observation.

Why? Like as in, what makes that assumption true if it is actually true? I think it sounds clever but is probably untrue. It makes sense if people are talking about Nazi's as a tribe while under the pretension that they aren't, which I think is actually likely. But I think centrists, while still doing this are, relatively resistant. Big emphasis on relatively.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You know why? Because the nazi party and even the display of nazi symbols are legally banned in Germany. By your stated standards this constitutes a violation of free speech and the enforcement of a self-inconsistent standard.

Do you know the precise standard(s) used to derive this portion of German law? You seem to assert that it was self-inconsistent, but you haven't provided reasoning for this assertion.

Even in the context of the US there are self-inconsistent standards that cause legal trouble. Take "obscenity laws" for instance. There's no protection against something widely accepted today being post-defined as "obscene" and enforced. That violates the first amendment, but not enough people are effected to care.

As an aside I believe Germany made their laws regarding depictions of nazi stuff more lax recently (within the past 1-2 years), no sudden resurgence as a result. The discussion in this thread being about "nazis" is dishonest anyway. It's much less about actual nazis and much more about labeling opinions one doesn't like as "nazi" and then claiming that as a basis for censoring said opinions.