There are some conservatives who don't care for their plight, or think that law-breaking justifies it.
There are more of us than them.
There are more of us than them.
There are more of us than there are of them
- Thread starter Hygro
- Start date
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Zigs!
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Let’s 2 on 1 zigs 
Berzerker
Deity
Nobody here ever supported Clinton? Did they ever condemn the many Democrats who did, like his enabling wife? Clinton was important then, if Democrats wanted to appear fair they would have raised a fuss, not wait until Trump got elected.
There's literally a whole generation between Clinton's actions and Trump's. My generation wasn't politically active at all until Obama. There are legal adults who weren't alive when Clinton's presidency ended.
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
Pffffft! A technicality!
Berzerker
Deity
And that proves nobody here ever supported Clinton? I think these rape allegations are from the 80s and 90s and I know some people here are too young to have supported Clinton. How do they feel about the Democrats who did? If they're gonna be mad at Trump supporters shouldn't they also be mad at Democrats who supported Clinton? Hell, who did they support in 2016? The accused rapist or the wife of an accused rapist who enabled her accused rapist husband by attacking his alleged victim? We dont have to go back far...
As the saying goes, the past is a foreign country. Having never been, I'm not in much of a position to judge it. I'd have to do research and everything. Ugh.
edit but yeah screw clinton, I have no reason to defend. I just don't particularly care strongly about this, given he's out of politics and once again, this happened like 23 years ago. Should he be punished? Yeah, sure. Knock yourself out. I have more immediate concerns.
edit but yeah screw clinton, I have no reason to defend. I just don't particularly care strongly about this, given he's out of politics and once again, this happened like 23 years ago. Should he be punished? Yeah, sure. Knock yourself out. I have more immediate concerns.
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Zardnaar
Deity
Clinton's reputation has taken a big hit. Hell I was to young to vote for Clinton except 96 and in not American.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
Clinton sucks.
But seriously, people have double standards, fine, at they have standards. I know you're asking people to hold them all accountable but it wears as if you're asking people to not hold Trump accountable until they hold Clinton accountable and that's not right, you gotta start somewhere.
Yeah I still liked Clinton until recently. I'm out. A lot of the accusations seemed like right wing hit jobs. Maybe not so much especially in recent light.
But seriously, people have double standards, fine, at they have standards. I know you're asking people to hold them all accountable but it wears as if you're asking people to not hold Trump accountable until they hold Clinton accountable and that's not right, you gotta start somewhere.
In this thread? I suspect not. Should each of us go through our posting history to show that we've already commented on Clinton? Maybe each of us should have to provide a quote from a completely separate thread in order to placate you?
Do you understand that Trump matters now in a way that Clinton does not matter now? And why do we only have to go back to Clinton? Maybe we should start every conversation on this front by having a contest to see who can name the most ancient leader that performed indiscretion?
Not as angry. For the same reason why you would be more angry at the second person to step on your foot after you complained about the first person stepping on your foot. Clinton supporters made a mistake about Clinton. Trump supporters supported Trump, even after knowing about Clinton already setting the bad example.
"You're doing the same wrong thing that you know we did!"
You're insisting that people equally attack Clinton supporters, but I don't think that's fair. Because they have. And despite doing so, Trump supporters still support Trump. And the Trump supporters are supporting Trump even though they know that Clinton supporters are making a mistake by supporting Clinton
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If Berzerker keeps on attacking Clinton without denouncing Jackson I can't take him or his complaints seriously.
I'm 34, I was 15 when Bill Clinton left office. At that stage I mostly knew him from pop culture references to him playing saxophone.
Maybe some people don't quite comprehend just how long ago the Clinton administration was.
Maybe some people don't quite comprehend just how long ago the Clinton administration was.
Zardnaar
Deity
I turned 18 in 96 pre Lewinsky scandal.
IDK if Clinton's guilty but he wasn't caught on tape boasting about it.
I think people will overlook an affair, but yeah I think there's enough to investigate Clinton but conviction would be almost impossible after 20+ years.
IDK if Clinton's guilty but he wasn't caught on tape boasting about it.
I think people will overlook an affair, but yeah I think there's enough to investigate Clinton but conviction would be almost impossible after 20+ years.
First reply, others will pop up as and when I have time 
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...there-are-of-them.649800/page-5#post-15548150
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...there-are-of-them.649800/page-5#post-15548167
Two are to the same poster, admittedly. But the context here is also important. The thread, at this point, has been going on for some time. The people you're engaging with have been posting since the start of the thread (or near it). You then keep asking people for clarification, you keep inferring things about "hostile misinterpretations", when you've seemingly skipped over the polite disagreement that's already happened.
The impression I got at the time is that you came in with an understanding of the OP, and agreement with something of what they're proposing, and skipping most other things between the OP and your entry point. Otherwise you'd have seen this post. Or Cloud's post immediately following on the subsequent page. Neither are hostile, and simply express concern for naivety. Unfortunately after this we get other posters wandering in and upping the ante; polarising the dialogue. You don't comment on this either. You're then surprised, or baffled, or otherwise do not understand that by the time you're posting in the thread that a lot of good faith has already been exhausted, and you don't show an awareness of having read it.
Maybe people shouldn't be expected to read a thread fully before engaging with it. I dunno, I think it depends on the context. But you end up surprised at people who are already exasperated (myself included), and you make no (visible) effort to understand why that is. And that's before the thread got truly ridiculous (in my opinion) and it turned into three parallel arguments being made by different people, but to the same people. Mainly me, because I have the unfortunate habit of biting when I perhaps shouldn't. There was no real need for me to even bother with Berzerker or TheMeInTeam, but I did anyway. At least one of those might turn out vaguely alright.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...there-are-of-them.649800/page-5#post-15548134
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...there-are-of-them.649800/page-5#post-15548150
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...there-are-of-them.649800/page-5#post-15548167
Two are to the same poster, admittedly. But the context here is also important. The thread, at this point, has been going on for some time. The people you're engaging with have been posting since the start of the thread (or near it). You then keep asking people for clarification, you keep inferring things about "hostile misinterpretations", when you've seemingly skipped over the polite disagreement that's already happened.
The impression I got at the time is that you came in with an understanding of the OP, and agreement with something of what they're proposing, and skipping most other things between the OP and your entry point. Otherwise you'd have seen this post. Or Cloud's post immediately following on the subsequent page. Neither are hostile, and simply express concern for naivety. Unfortunately after this we get other posters wandering in and upping the ante; polarising the dialogue. You don't comment on this either. You're then surprised, or baffled, or otherwise do not understand that by the time you're posting in the thread that a lot of good faith has already been exhausted, and you don't show an awareness of having read it.
Maybe people shouldn't be expected to read a thread fully before engaging with it. I dunno, I think it depends on the context. But you end up surprised at people who are already exasperated (myself included), and you make no (visible) effort to understand why that is. And that's before the thread got truly ridiculous (in my opinion) and it turned into three parallel arguments being made by different people, but to the same people. Mainly me, because I have the unfortunate habit of biting when I perhaps shouldn't. There was no real need for me to even bother with Berzerker or TheMeInTeam, but I did anyway. At least one of those might turn out vaguely alright.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
Numbers don't matter when one side has rigged the system to allow themselves to stay in power. They don't want to change the system and neither do the liberals who persist with the naive belief that things can continue as they are albeit with small changes.
Hygro, El mac etc can talk about numbers til the cows come home but conservatives have the power, the backing of incredibly wealthy people, the structural apparatus as well as countless cannon fodder who seek to defend and obfuscate at all turns. The Democrats literally cling to the same economic policy that causes, exacerbates and will ultimately destroy us all and nothing will change whilst we have people claiming we should be reaching out to conservatives; well here's a reality check.
It's 2019, if you can't bring yourself to support equal rights for all, the bodily autonomy for women, ending racism etc you are the problem and no amount of watering down our goals will ever appeal to a group of people who think it is okay to put children in concentration camps because of their ethnicity.
These people would rather continue in their downward trajectory than ever see the likes of a black person or Hispanic or transperson have equal rights or have an equitable footing, as long as they're above someone they don't care, it's the politics of spite and compassion cannot fix people who don't desire to change.
Hygro, El mac etc can talk about numbers til the cows come home but conservatives have the power, the backing of incredibly wealthy people, the structural apparatus as well as countless cannon fodder who seek to defend and obfuscate at all turns. The Democrats literally cling to the same economic policy that causes, exacerbates and will ultimately destroy us all and nothing will change whilst we have people claiming we should be reaching out to conservatives; well here's a reality check.
It's 2019, if you can't bring yourself to support equal rights for all, the bodily autonomy for women, ending racism etc you are the problem and no amount of watering down our goals will ever appeal to a group of people who think it is okay to put children in concentration camps because of their ethnicity.
These people would rather continue in their downward trajectory than ever see the likes of a black person or Hispanic or transperson have equal rights or have an equitable footing, as long as they're above someone they don't care, it's the politics of spite and compassion cannot fix people who don't desire to change.
You'd have to be at least 41 to have been old enough to vote in the second Bill Clinton election... then on top of that you'd have to be one of those rare folks who was motivated enough to vote as a teenager. The former I am, the latter... not so much.
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2009
- Messages
- 8,637
fair play, but consider the following: conservatives primary (only?) defense of the inhumane border camps where CHILDREN HAVE DIED is the perfect antonym of empathy.
Children die though. From the numbers that were posted before, the child mortality rate in the camps seemed lower than that of the US as a whole. Not that the US child mortality rate is anything to write home about of course, but still.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
Gotta find that silver lining when defending locking up children eh?
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