Tip the pizza delivery driver!

[Lozzy_Ozzy]

I totally agree with Warpus.
Where I live people always go to give me the change, even though I normally end tipping them afterwards.
Its just polite not to make assumptions like that.

 

[Ansar]

Usually the Pizza Hut/Domino's drivers have plenty of coins for change.

 

[LucyDuke]

They shouldn't have to put up with rude and inconsiderate people.

Gotta disagree with you here, man. When you're not at work, you don't have to put up with rude and inconsiderate people. When you're on the job, putting up with what the customers give you is your job. As long as they're paying customers, and your manager says to serve them, you should have to put up with them. That's part of the job.

If we're just being idealistic, well, people shouldn't be rude or inconsiderate to begin with.

What is so freaking wrong with charging for what the product or servie is costing instead of making it vague with hidden cost that you'd need to be an insider to even realise they exist and an expert to avoid embarrssment, labels and bad service ?

The cost of the drink is decided by the house based on the cost of the ingredients. It's not worth it to keep separate prices for each drink depending on the time it takes to prepare it. The house is barely paying the bartender for his time, the customer is expected to pay the bartender directly by tipping him.

We have a custom of tipping in this country (USA), like any other cultural quirk that you need to learn when you visit a place. People like to get all upset about it because it involves money, but it doesn't change the fact that that's the way we do it.

So there are information sheets or signs on the walls (or on the pizza-deliverer's cap) saying either: "when we say $10 we actually mean $13" or in a different way informing me what I am supposed to pay extra to avoid the danger of being embarrassed, eat pissed-over food or swallow the insult that others are served quicker than I am ??
And if there isn't and I do get treated that way I can sue ?

If not - than the cost is hidden.

Like was mentioned, there's no sign that says we have sales tax, either. That cost is not advertised, it is not printed on price tags, and there is no sign announcing it. But unlike tips, you're not just socially, but legally bound to pay sales tax. Like it or not.

If you're embarrassed, that's because of your own ignorance. I bet there are things I'd do visiting Holland that would embarrass me. Now you know it's considered rude to not pay your server. Any Dutch customs I ought to know about?

Dirty food rarely happens. I think it's disgusting and if I ever saw anything like that happen, I'd tell a manager immediately. However, when it does happen, it's going to be because you are intentionally rude to your server, not because you don't know you're supposed to tip.

It's not an insult when big tippers get faster service. It's an economic reality. They're paying for it. Is it insulting that your neighbor who makes more money than you has a bigger, nicer house than you? If I'm busy and I have two people waiting for something, why shouldn't I serve the big tipper first? I'm not going to sit on my ass blowing off a non-tipper completely, but I don't see any reason I should push him to the top of my list.

You could sue for getting pissed-on food. You couldn't sue for being embarrassed or for receiving minimal service. The courts know this is our custom, too.

I don't, so not everyone knows this.

Everyone who lives in the USA and interacts with waiters or bartenders or delivery guys knows this. And now you do too.

 

[FredLC]

I don't get tipped at my job -- I suppose I have no reason to work hard. Woohoo! I can slack off and spit on people's spreadsheets!

Touché!

Regards .

 

[El_Machinae]

I pick up the pizza, because that way I don't have to pay a delivery fee or tip, which saves a few bucks and is worth the wear-and-tear on my car.

 

[bigdog5994]

i didn't tip the girl that cuts my hair once but it was her fault because she gave me back a $10 as change and i wasn't gonna tip her $10 so the next time i get a hair cut ill tip her $10 (i hope it doesn't make her think that shes gonna get $10 form now on)

so thats my lil curb your enthusiasm situation

 

[brennan]

Absolutely. And every time you comment, you simply reinforce that fact.
Once again this is your self-centered attitude, and at this point willful ignorance, at play. We understand the concept quite well over here, and that fact has been explained to you repeatedly.

You basically jumped into this conversation to tell..

Stop, you are making me laugh. I jumped in to suggest that your system is broken and a simple solution would be for pizza delivery companies to stop ripping off a) their staff and b) their customers. To the satisfaction of all involved (except the pizza company owners who appear to be the only ones benefitting from the stat5us-quo).

If your only response is to start calling me ignorant and selfish, then clearly you are entirely failing to grasp the simple concept that you have a flawed system. The proof of this being BugFatty's OP. The retort 'well that's the way it is over here' is not a sufficient defence when flaws in your system are obvious.

 

[shortguy]

Stop, you are making me laugh. I jumped in to suggest that your system is broken and a simple solution would be for pizza delivery companies to stop ripping off a) their staff and b) their customers. To the satisfaction of all involved (except the pizza company owners who appear to be the only ones benefitting from the stat5us-quo).

Why on earth is the system "broken"? Hell, I'd think the consumer would like it. Rather than automatically tacking on 15 or 20 or whatever percent for the driver/waiter/bartender, the consumer actually has discretion in how much he or she pays. One is perfectly free to pay no tip at all, effectively reducing the price of one's meal, and they justify himself by saying that the system sucks.

It's a win-win!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The system is broken because the driver now is on the recieving end. The system doesn't win of only one of the participants (the customer) has an advantage. The system works if everyone gets their fair share, or what has been agreed is their fair share.

The tipping-system is far too subjective for that.

 

[brennan]

Why on earth is the system "broken"? Hell, I'd think the consumer would like it. Rather than automatically tacking on 15 or 20 or whatever percent for the driver/waiter/bartender, the consumer actually has discretion in how much he or she pays. One is perfectly free to pay no tip at all, effectively reducing the price of one's meal, and they justify himself by saying that the system sucks.

It's a win-win!

The system is broken because it exploits delivery drivers, lies to the consumer and appears to result in behaviour which means that, thanks to this thread, in the unlikely circumstance that I find myself in the States, i'm certain NEVER to order food, either at a restaurant or from a delivery company.

When I eat out I expect to pay for a decent level of service, that means you get me my food fast and hot , because if you can't do that then you have failed at your job, for which you are being paid.

From what i'm seeing on this thread service in the States is appalling and if you don't tip for it you can't go back without running the risk of getting even worse service.

After the number of people who have stated what happens in future when you don't tip i'm wondering precisely what basis you have for saying i'm free to decide whether or not to do so. Clearly if I don't tip i'm going to receive cold, burnt food, an hour late, and possibly with a light coating of saliva (if i'm lucky). Threats to behave in this manner with my product in future do not in any way represent good service, and they demonstrate that this is in fact more akin to a protection racket than quality service.

 

[Adamb0mb]

Stop, you are making me laugh. I jumped in to suggest that your system is broken and a simple solution would be for pizza delivery companies to stop ripping off a) their staff and b) their customers. To the satisfaction of all involved (except the pizza company owners who appear to be the only ones benefitting from the stat5us-quo).
Maddox

I'd say the company is the only member of the tipping transaction that doesn't benefit from the status-quo.

Instead of all money going to the company and then the company doling out the money as it wishes, our system has people working directly for the customer.

And that is why tipping is exclusive to the service industry as opposed to other industries that sell a material good (grocers, software designers, carpenters, etc.). I think it is an improvement upon the 'all goods at face value' system.

ps. I've never seen food spit on or otherwise intentionally ruined. I would consider that action abhorrent regardless of any tipping situation.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Lucyduke: as long as there is no leaflet, sign or notification in the restaurant / bar or information printed on the bill it is hidden.

Adamb0mb: is one supposed to tip the paperboy, McDonald's, hairdresser, pedicure, prostitute, milkman, bicycle-repairman ?

 

[Grisu]

i didn't tip the girl that cuts my hair once but it was her fault because she gave me back a $10 as change and i wasn't gonna tip her $10 so the next time i get a hair cut ill tip her $10 (i hope it doesn't make her think that shes gonna get $10 form now on)

so thats my lil curb your enthusiasm situation

a somewhat offtopic question: is it expected tip the hairdresser in Australia as well?

 

[Mirc]

^ A somewhat off-topic answer to a somewhat off-topic question: in Romania, you are supposed to tip the hairdresser too. As well as the waiter, doctor, taxi driver, etc.

Here it's not American influence thuogh... it's Turkish influence (in fact even our word for "tip" is derived from... AFAIK Arabic, from "bak-shish" - not sure how to spell it but I've seen it spelled in Latin characters a couple of times).

And I'm extremely proud that the barbaric tipping system keeps getting less and less popular here lately.

 

[LucyDuke]

i didn't tip the girl that cuts my hair once but it was her fault because she gave me back a $10 as change and i wasn't gonna tip her $10 so the next time i get a hair cut ill tip her $10 (i hope it doesn't make her think that shes gonna get $10 form now on)

so thats my lil curb your enthusiasm situation

The Euro anti-tippers will probably hate this, but bartenders are trained to make change to avoid that situation. If you order $10 worth of drinks and pay with a $20, I'm not giving you back a $10 bill, I'm giving you a five and five ones, or a five, four ones, and four quarters.

When I eat out I expect to pay for a decent level of service, that means you get me my food fast and hot , because if you can't do that then you have failed at your job, for which you are being paid.

I would like to reiterate that most of the time the server is only barely being paid by the house. He is being paid by the customer. The customer pays the house for the food and the server for the service. If the customer does not receive proper service, he has the option of not paying the server who failed at his job. (He also has the option of taking it up with the manager and perhaps not paying the house for the food, either.) You expect to pay for a decent level of service, you're just ignoring the fact that you pay the server, not the house, for that.

I can tell that you don't like that, but that's our system. If tipping were as awful as you all seem to think it is, don't you think the free market would've killed it off by now?

From what i'm seeing on this thread service in the States is appalling and if you don't tip for it you can't go back without running the risk of getting even worse service.

After the number of people who have stated what happens in future when you don't tip i'm wondering precisely what basis you have for saying i'm free to decide whether or not to do so. Clearly if I don't tip i'm going to receive cold, burnt food, an hour late, and possibly with a light coating of saliva (if i'm lucky). Threats to behave in this manner with my product in future do not in any way represent good service, and they demonstrate that this is in fact more akin to a protection racket than quality service.

You're going to judge the quality of service based on a thread that started with a gripe about non-tipping pizza orderers? I don't expect to actually convince you that you're wrong, but you're completely wrong. There are a few places (anywhere, not just the states) where the service is crap (slow, mistakes, but not spit on) no matter what you do. Most places, your server works hard to provide you with good service because that's how he earns his pay. (Remember, the tip comes after the meal?)

Lucyduke: as long as there is no leaflet, sign or notification in the restaurant / bar or information printed on the bill it is hidden.

So are taxes, then. And those aren't even negotiable.

 

[Mirc]

So are taxes, then. And those aren't even negotiable.

Huh? How does that logic work? How are taxes "hidden"? Are you not notified about taxes? That's what Rik said.

 

[Mise]

Lucy, just so you're aware of cultural perspective, it's illegal to advertise goods in retail shops without VAT (sales tax) included in the UK. I'd imagine it's the same across Europe. The idea is that it (a) protects the consumer, and (b) makes the market more efficient, as all relevant information is available to both parties. Of course, if the retailers have no legal obligation to advertise prices accurately, then they won't - they'll exclude sales tax, service charges, etc. You asked if the market would have killed it off by now -- this is why the market hasn't, because the economically optimal solution requires legislation. Without legislation, the market will be sub-optimal.

 

[Masquerouge]

Hey, looks like the discussion has taken a wrong turn somewhere... but an interesting one.

I'm gonna relate to my experiences in both France and the US.

In France, as a general rule, you do not tip. The only time you'll tip is when service has been exceptional, or for the very few jobs where what you pay goes directly to the person (like a taxi driver, but it's not mandatory at all to tip him). Now a couple of observations:
a. we don't tip waiters and bartenders because they have a decent salary that assume they won't be tipped.
b. waiters in France are usually not the friendliest ones you'll ever see (even more true in Paris)
c. tourists, and particularly American tourists, in touristic places, are tipping as if there would be no tomorrow. Thing is, not tipping in a tipping country is rude, but tipping in a non-tipping country is not.
d. if we decide to tip in a restaurant it will NOT be dependent on the price of the meal. It will be a couple of euros at most.

Now we move to the States.
It is very confusing to know when you're supposed to tip. just looking at restaurant, you do not tip in a fast-food joint, but do you tip at an all-you-can-eat Indian buffet? Is tipping related to the service provided, or the amount of your bill?
And I didn't know you were supposed to tip hairdressers so there is one place I don't go to anymore because of that. If they're gonna spit on my pizza, I'll certainly not leave my haircut to them.
But what about tour guides? Bus drivers? Docents? Etc. So in conclusion:
a. the fact that waiters and bartenders rely on tips make for a truly great customer service. You can not deny that. Never has my water glass been empty in an American restaurant.
b. there is however a great confusion about who and how much to tip that makes for a lot of embarrassing situations
c. since the whole thing is subjective, how am I to know that the tip I left pleased my waiter and that he/she will not spit in my food next time I come? (though to be honest I'm not sure at all that this is a common thing among waiters).

 

[psweetman1590]

It is very confusing to know when you're supposed to tip. just looking at restaurant, you do not tip in a fast-food joint, but do you tip at an all-you-can-eat Indian buffet? Is tipping related to the service provided, or the amount of your bill?

It's a sort of cultural knowledge that's just picked up. There aren't any real rules of thumb that I can think of except that if someone is providing a service along with a product (like the waiter at a restuarant - food and service), then it's probably a good idea to tip.

If they're gonna spit on my pizza, I'll certainly not leave my haircut to them.

If a hairdresser spits on your head, you don't have to pay them anything, let alone a tip. Can we leave this odd (and personally unwitnessed) argument aside? I've never seen spit in my pizzas - although that might be because I'm not rude to the pizza boy.

Buggy has already said that it's not tipping alone that gets you a messed up pizza, although that will affect the service negatively. He said that things only get bad when you are insulting about it. And quite frankly, you shouldn't need the threat of spit in your pizza to not be insulting to the pizza boy, should you?

But what about tour guides? Bus drivers? Docents?

No, no, and no. No tips for these guys, they get paid a salary. (see my rule of thumb above. None of these people provide both a product and a service.)

there is however a great confusion about who and how much to tip that makes for a lot of embarrassing situations

15% for adequate service, less for poor service, none for abysmal service. If you're feeling generous, a 20-25% tip is good for excellent service.

since the whole thing is subjective, how am I to know that the tip I left pleased my waiter and that he/she will not spit in my food next time I come? (though to be honest I'm not sure at all that this is a common thing among waiters).

If you go over 15%, your waiter will be happy with it.

In order to get spit in your food, you need to not tip and, be an a-hole about it.

 

[warpus]

The one thing I don't like about tipping culture in North America is that it's treated like a taboo.

It's an uncomfortable relationship between server and customer, in a "my boss pays me less than what I could make in a chinese sweatshop, so you've got to help me out here" type of way.

The establishment doesn't even acknowledge that a tipping culture exists; almost like it's none of their business. The menus don't mention it, and I don't think I've ever heard anyone discussing regional tipping customs with the waiter.

It's an awkward thing to ask, right? Some people might even say that it'd be rude to directly discuss the tip with the waiter.

Why is this? Is it because we feel bad that the waiter is being paid $2 an hour? ... and that the customer shoulders the responsibility of making sure that the waiter gets a decent wage?

Some people even don't know about the $2/$3 an hour deal. A lot of people assume that the waiters make minimum wage, at least, plus tips. That was my understanding of it, until my sister got a job serving tables; I was pretty surprised when I found out what she was making, before tips.

Why not include this information on the menus? Why doesn't the establishment do this? Why don't they fully embrace the tipping culture that they've created & are maintaining? A lot of people don't eat out often - and they are a bit perplexed with the whole tipping thing.. There are also tourists, travellers from other regions of the country (or from other countries), people who don't know how much waiters are being paid, before tips.. Wouldn't it make sense to include a note on the menu?

"These prices reflect what you will be paying for the food. The cost of delivering the food to your table is usually covered by the tip - the standard in these parts is 15%. This is between you and the waiter, and you can pay any amount you wish, depending on the service you received"

That seems weird, right? But why? Why not spell out this "tipping culture" on the menu, so that everyone is aware of what is going on?

Why are these establishments distancing themselves from this "tipping culture", yet they embrace it fully when it comes to paying their servers?

I say they embrace it, like the servers and customers are forced to. As it stands now, the responsibility is pushed by the establishment onto the customer & waiter, creating a possibly awkward relationship between the two (as evidenced by this thread).