That's a fair point. What I don't understand is why on earth the leftists aren't on my side here. I thought for sure we could reach common ground here (ok, that's a lie, but it does puzzle me).
The left absolutely struggles with immigration. Immigration is a net economic good. Welfare entitlements are a net economic good. But they necessarily conflict with each other. Liberals want to be nice, and sometimes don't do it wisely.
Maybe, but these people need jobs. They need to support their families. Why are we talking about importing cheap labor when we have American citizens dependent on welfare and unemployed? Doesn't make sense to me. Yeah sure, that might result in higher prices for things, but at least our economy would be firmly American. We would get some people off the street, reduce inequality, reduce crime, and in exchange the price of a tomato goes up a few cents. What's wrong with that? America first baby.
Well, you're valuing American babies over American kids. I think that's the major hiccup you're having here (other than not actually making progress on the economic discussion. The major difference here compared to many other arguments about immigration is that (for many) DACA kids are 'sufficiently American'. Economics aren't zero sum. A country does better if they have young, educated people who're willing to work. Unlike the slave labour that the illegal immigrant is, a DACA worker has legal protections.
The point above, where these are people who chose to play
in the system. This is why I prefer States have laws regarding licensed carry despite it being a sticking point in the 2nd Amendment. In a licensed carry state, I know that the person carrying the gun is a person who respects the idea of open carry
so much that they're willing to jump through a couple of hoops to carry. It's a self-selection process.
I don't blame the immigrants for this. I blame them for breaking the law and coming here illegally. That does not demonstrate any form of respect for our nation and its laws.
They were kids. I might as well blame you for being born. You're falling for the dialogue that makes Nationalists so difficult to talk to. They talk about meritocracy, but then want a birthright. I don't truly mind the idea of a birthright, but it's not absolute. If you'll recall, I think that citizens own the country. See my first paragraph on balancing entitlements with immigration.
I think it's good for the rich Americans and bad for the poor Americans. This is of course not factoring in cultural displacement, political displacement, increased welfare burden, increased crime, and so on. I will grant that DACA recipients are not likely to result in the last two, but I consider the first two very important. I also think DACA is just bad on the principles of it. You shouldn't reward people for breaking the law.
Well, as Perfection points out, it's not good for poor Americans. You're exporting your competitors. Then you need to reduce trade, using trade barriers, in order to protect your poor Americans a second time.
I think the major issue you're having (outside of American babies first) is that your crew views economics as a zero-sum game. It's not. Blaming the immigrants for the depression in wages is just kicking the can down the road. The 0.1% have gained all productivity gains for decades, and they're building robots to take our jobs. Suspecting that DACA kids are reducing wages is just missing the longterm crisis.
Sweatshop immigrants are a completely different story. They outcompete people for wages. For the median person, this results in either lower prices or higher returns on our portfolio. But there absolutely is a subclass of folk that cannot compete with someone willing to work harder for less. At that point, we're discussing entitlements.
What you might not be realizing is that the entitlement you're pushing for is for bureaucrats to physically force people away from jobs in order to give them to someone less qualified. I'd prefer handing the handicapped person cash in order to boost their quality of life. Now, you're kinda talking out of both sides of your mouth. You'd prefer people not be rewarded for coming here illegally. But then you also point out that being in the socioeconomic class of 'essentially a slave' is a reward. And then we use evoking language like 'they're stealing jobs' .... but honestly, they're not stealing jobs from anyone I'd actually hire given a chance. Someone that disadvantaged needs help. But please don't force me to hire them without a subsidy
