So, uh, I realize that we did not discuss research after this age at all. I'm going to go out on a minor limb and go for Monotheism, knowing that Persia has Feudalism. Mayhaps we can beat that out of them? It'll not be for a few turns yet, so speak now!
TT01: Beating Demigod
- Thread starter ThinkTank
- Start date
TheOverseer714
Overseer
I think Feud is considered so important that they won't trade it for love or money. We research it and trade for the others, getting Maces will be very important, too important to delay. The Horses for Knights may be some time away, unless we sacrifice a worker for a colony. Maces could be built researching 1 tech and a resource we already have, Knights require 3 techs and a 2nd resource hooked up. My bet is Monotheism, Engineering and 20 gpt wouldn't be enough to get Feudalism from the skinflint AIs.
Well, kids, here we go. Interesting developments:
750 BC Preflight: Notepad, CA2 open.
Do some MMing--not to Bucephalus specs this turn, but that's because we're a couple of shields over. Maximize commerce in Amsterdam and The Hague and still have them kick out swords next turn. Rotterdam gets the mined desert and the iron, at the cost of some food, and will also kick out a sword next turn (getting 9 shields). For this turn, Groningen gets another FP instead of the mined desert, as I hope to whip out a settler there. Maastricht borrows the irrigated wheat for some extra food (as its second shield is corrupt anyway). Move Haarlem's second tile to the roaded grass (1 more food, 1 less commerce; now it can grow before building the settler at size 2). MM Utrecht's mined BG over to Arnhem to complete that catapult next turn. (Utrecht nominally now will build a catapult in 3 instead of 2, so the net's the same, but I do this anyway to 1. get a catapult before the revolt, which I plan to do right away, and 2. I have hopes that being in Monarchy will allow Utrecht to kick out that catapult in 2 turns anyway, with lower corruption.) All this costs us 1 gold, but I think the food's significantly higher, and we get 3 swords + a cat this turn this way, so I think it is well worth it.
Start settler from Rotterdam moving to the west to settle that fishing village near The Hague.
Take deep breath, press enter.
The current State of the Empire:
It may be worth swapping a catapult or two to a worker--I may be a little cat-heavy. On the worker-management front, there's three in Eindhoven that are going to finally make Holwerd not suck so bad. A few more can follow. A few workers and the catapult stragglers may be on automove--may be worth checking before you press Enter.
Two minor apologies: 1. for not having everything perfectly in place--Persia false-started on my war timing! and 2. for temporarily forgetting about our exploring galley, which I fortified against the approaching barb galley and then promptly forgot about for a few turns.
750 BC Preflight: Notepad, CA2 open.
Do some MMing--not to Bucephalus specs this turn, but that's because we're a couple of shields over. Maximize commerce in Amsterdam and The Hague and still have them kick out swords next turn. Rotterdam gets the mined desert and the iron, at the cost of some food, and will also kick out a sword next turn (getting 9 shields). For this turn, Groningen gets another FP instead of the mined desert, as I hope to whip out a settler there. Maastricht borrows the irrigated wheat for some extra food (as its second shield is corrupt anyway). Move Haarlem's second tile to the roaded grass (1 more food, 1 less commerce; now it can grow before building the settler at size 2). MM Utrecht's mined BG over to Arnhem to complete that catapult next turn. (Utrecht nominally now will build a catapult in 3 instead of 2, so the net's the same, but I do this anyway to 1. get a catapult before the revolt, which I plan to do right away, and 2. I have hopes that being in Monarchy will allow Utrecht to kick out that catapult in 2 turns anyway, with lower corruption.) All this costs us 1 gold, but I think the food's significantly higher, and we get 3 swords + a cat this turn this way, so I think it is well worth it.
Start settler from Rotterdam moving to the west to settle that fishing village near The Hague.
Take deep breath, press enter.
Spoiler :
Just kidding, wanted to see who was paying attention. They move generally south. They don't want to pick on Holwerd, but they still bear watching.
![[party]](/images/smilies/partytime.gif "Party [party]")
The current State of the Empire:
Spoiler :
It may be worth swapping a catapult or two to a worker--I may be a little cat-heavy. On the worker-management front, there's three in Eindhoven that are going to finally make Holwerd not suck so bad. A few more can follow. A few workers and the catapult stragglers may be on automove--may be worth checking before you press Enter.
Two minor apologies: 1. for not having everything perfectly in place--Persia false-started on my war timing! and 2. for temporarily forgetting about our exploring galley, which I fortified against the approaching barb galley and then promptly forgot about for a few turns.
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templar_x
usually walks his talks
got it.
DWetzel, am I safe to assume you moved the stack two tiles WEST of Arbela? Cannot have a look on the save now in work.
Will have a thorough look on it tonight. Will post my questions and plans and play this probably tomorrow.
for what i can see now:
+ wouldn´t it be wise to trade the little we have for alliances against persia now? them having all the money i fear suddenly we could face some more enemies we defenitely do not need now.
+ do we want a peace renegotiated "combined alliance" with our proposed next enemy?
+ holding the persian capital for a turn should be doable - simply leaving no troops inside if that is somehow feasible for the second ibt. i think then it depends on how much the persians throw at us: if they have lots of (even weak) troops, i´d go for Bucephalus´ gifting plan to whoever on our cont. is not at war with them. if they by then already suffer from their fights against various enemies, i´d simply leave two swords and a cat next to it and otherwise empty to retake it any time it flips.
+ quite the same question with the second dot on the hill, which is an extremely important site imo for defense in case we face a serious counter-attack.
+ do we want cultural pressure on Tyre by aggressive settling on the closest dot rot in Bucephalus´ dm? would mean we have to build some kind of culture there. Tyre being really close to our cap and us then occupying many of its tiles would give us good chances to get it. however, that would be mean to be ready to faces mw´s soon.
+ what to do in the event of a mgl? i´d use the first for a sword army and save the second for the fp... but usually i am not very lucky with those anyway
+ research: i am not convinced we should spend so much of our econ. on research now. lone scientist would do it for now, it think, as long as we see a realistic chance to capture the gl. for what i can see from now, we will not need any MA tech until we get all the known techs for free.
yes, and btw thanks for providing me such an exciting start in my first SG round
DWetzel, am I safe to assume you moved the stack two tiles WEST of Arbela? Cannot have a look on the save now in work.
Will have a thorough look on it tonight. Will post my questions and plans and play this probably tomorrow.
for what i can see now:
+ wouldn´t it be wise to trade the little we have for alliances against persia now? them having all the money i fear suddenly we could face some more enemies we defenitely do not need now.
+ do we want a peace renegotiated "combined alliance" with our proposed next enemy?
+ holding the persian capital for a turn should be doable - simply leaving no troops inside if that is somehow feasible for the second ibt. i think then it depends on how much the persians throw at us: if they have lots of (even weak) troops, i´d go for Bucephalus´ gifting plan to whoever on our cont. is not at war with them. if they by then already suffer from their fights against various enemies, i´d simply leave two swords and a cat next to it and otherwise empty to retake it any time it flips.
+ quite the same question with the second dot on the hill, which is an extremely important site imo for defense in case we face a serious counter-attack.
+ do we want cultural pressure on Tyre by aggressive settling on the closest dot rot in Bucephalus´ dm? would mean we have to build some kind of culture there. Tyre being really close to our cap and us then occupying many of its tiles would give us good chances to get it. however, that would be mean to be ready to faces mw´s soon.
+ what to do in the event of a mgl? i´d use the first for a sword army and save the second for the fp... but usually i am not very lucky with those anyway
+ research: i am not convinced we should spend so much of our econ. on research now. lone scientist would do it for now, it think, as long as we see a realistic chance to capture the gl. for what i can see from now, we will not need any MA tech until we get all the known techs for free.
yes, and btw thanks for providing me such an exciting start in my first SG round
barbslinger
Gun blast'n shot drinker
Good luck DWetzel. Attack where you think you can win , but defense to maintain.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
It just keeps getting better, doesn't it?
There were two highly significant moments in that set:
Now Rotterdam is also making ten shields, we average a Sword every turn; that should outstrip our losses, and allow us to open a second front in the near future.
Hiawatha took Tyre but gassed his last stack in doing so, I'll wager; this means that there is no longer a cohesive stack on this continent - except ours - and we will only face single Archers, albeit quite often due to the DG production bonus. If our stack maintains it's shape, and our generals their discipline, then we should minimize losses, and of course the fewer losses we take, the fewer reinforcements required - more Swords for elsewhere.
I disagree. We need fear nobody now - each AI civ has been to war recently, and have long since gassed it's offensive units. That Iroquois stack that took Tyre was the last danger to any of our cities. Alliances would only slow us down now, and may result in an unintentional rep hit if we got sloppy; we will need our rep intact when we invade the Beta continent.
I would say not, for the reasons just given.
By all means settle in place - Tyre will not give any cultural pressure once it's razed, which I believe you should do straight after razing Arbela; Tyre is in the way, and we have nothing to fear from Hiawatha - he has no horses for MW's.
My vote would go to the Army.
I agree; I would vote to shut down research, and spend the money rushing Cats and Settlers to keep pace with our Sword production. Feudalism would be 'nice to have' rather than 'must have', IMO, and we can trade for it soon I suspect. If not we can beat it out of Persia, or wait for the GLib.
There were two highly significant moments in that set:
Now Rotterdam is also making ten shields, we average a Sword every turn; that should outstrip our losses, and allow us to open a second front in the near future.
IBT: IROQUOIS DECLARE WAR ON THE PERSIANS.TYRE BECOMES IROQUOIS-OWNED..
Hiawatha took Tyre but gassed his last stack in doing so, I'll wager; this means that there is no longer a cohesive stack on this continent - except ours - and we will only face single Archers, albeit quite often due to the DG production bonus. If our stack maintains it's shape, and our generals their discipline, then we should minimize losses, and of course the fewer losses we take, the fewer reinforcements required - more Swords for elsewhere.
I disagree. We need fear nobody now - each AI civ has been to war recently, and have long since gassed it's offensive units. That Iroquois stack that took Tyre was the last danger to any of our cities. Alliances would only slow us down now, and may result in an unintentional rep hit if we got sloppy; we will need our rep intact when we invade the Beta continent.
I would say not, for the reasons just given.
By all means settle in place - Tyre will not give any cultural pressure once it's razed, which I believe you should do straight after razing Arbela; Tyre is in the way, and we have nothing to fear from Hiawatha - he has no horses for MW's.
+ what to do in the event of a mgl? i´d use the first for a sword army and save the second for the fp... but usually i am not very lucky with those anyway
My vote would go to the Army.
I agree; I would vote to shut down research, and spend the money rushing Cats and Settlers to keep pace with our Sword production. Feudalism would be 'nice to have' rather than 'must have', IMO, and we can trade for it soon I suspect. If not we can beat it out of Persia, or wait for the GLib.
Last I saw there was still a stack of about 8 Iroquois archers, so they are only partly spent.
Bucephalus, are you suggesting war with Iroquois also? They still own tyre. We may want to work around them for now.
Yes, our stack is 2 west of arbela.
I do not think culture pressure will work... That would imply we have some. Not worth it IMO.
I suggest keep stack intact for now, heading south, a second sword stack can hit tyre on the way. This gives time to position up north.
We do not need alliances, but we don't need unwanted enemies.
Bucephalus, are you suggesting war with Iroquois also? They still own tyre. We may want to work around them for now.
Yes, our stack is 2 west of arbela.
I do not think culture pressure will work... That would imply we have some. Not worth it IMO.
I suggest keep stack intact for now, heading south, a second sword stack can hit tyre on the way. This gives time to position up north.
We do not need alliances, but we don't need unwanted enemies.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Yes, I am, just as soon as Arbela is razed; razing Tyre will allow us to establish our core, and I don't feel any threat from Archers - they are just leader-fodder to a Sword stack. If we minimize casualties by using the Cats properly, then the Swords/Cats produced this next set would be ready to open up a second front.
I don't think it matters, either way; though, I think we are fairly well insured against aggression by Ragnor because of the dyes he extorted. On that subject, I think we can stand to refuse demands from now on; although you followed accepted protocol by not making a unilateral decision that could lead to war - so no complaints - I think it's a shame that we hadn't foreseen the possibility, and decided that we would refuse demands. Ragnor has been fighting for some time, and our cities are not threatened by him - it hurts us that we are giving him happiness through our dyes, when it could have been our war happiness.
This game is somewhat atypical DG game in many ways, ways which we can discuss at a later time if you wish to, and as such it feels more like Emperor; if you were making Swords at one a turn, and facing nothing more than Archers and Spears, and playing at Emperor level, then I doubt that you would hesitate - I think you are giving too much respect to the idea of a DG AI.
Possibly. I tend toward a cautiou warring style anyway.
Giving dyes was not an easy call... But it seemed best to take few chances. We ate in a good spot, but a war there could have sapped some resources best used heading south. Again I may be too cautious.
Giving dyes was not an easy call... But it seemed best to take few chances. We ate in a good spot, but a war there could have sapped some resources best used heading south. Again I may be too cautious.
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
It was the right call, given that we hadn't discussed it beforehand.
templar_x
usually walks his talks
Bucephalus, i see your point on alliances. so far that we don´t need them for our offensive. but even with swords against spears i like to know my back free when i go after the bull on our continent. but that´s just how i feel about it - and if we decide to go all by ourselves and kill anything another opponent, to be bought into, may throw at us, i´m ok with it. i love to spill blood as long as it´s not my own 
however, especially for tyre i´d like a combined alliance against the persians with the iros. so we can kill them and raze tyre either right after xerx or, even more probably, whenever they make peace with him. don´t we even gain wh then? i like that happen. and settling aggressively might make this even more likely.
(sorry for the mw, i didn´t see the latest file yet so didn´t know for sure they don´t have horses or won´t have any soon)
however, especially for tyre i´d like a combined alliance against the persians with the iros. so we can kill them and raze tyre either right after xerx or, even more probably, whenever they make peace with him. don´t we even gain wh then? i like that happen. and settling aggressively might make this even more likely.
(sorry for the mw, i didn´t see the latest file yet so didn´t know for sure they don´t have horses or won´t have any soon)
I would not worry about other wars being declared on us. Vikes have a free luxury, Henry is far away, Iroquois is a bit busy.
Our north is not totally defenseless, we have about 4 swords there. My thought is we press persia for about 8 to 10 turns and let Iroq do so too. Then our second stack will be ready to fight two fronts, or we can ally persia vs Iroquois with peace.
Our north is not totally defenseless, we have about 4 swords there. My thought is we press persia for about 8 to 10 turns and let Iroq do so too. Then our second stack will be ready to fight two fronts, or we can ally persia vs Iroquois with peace.
ThinkTank
RL Addict
By and large I agree. Alliances tied with peace have the disadavantage that we do not get to determine ourselves when the war with the Iros starts. I'd say press Persia for 8-10 turns, and then check the situation. It may well be that we will then be able to fight 2 opponents, so we need no alliance with either Persia or Iroquois.
templar_x
usually walks his talks
ok, so we have the war plan set.
btw, tt, are you a special fan of leonard cohen? i am gonna see him in concert next month...
btw, tt, are you a special fan of leonard cohen? i am gonna see him in concert next month...
TheOverseer714
Overseer
Looks like some things went just how we hoped they would, Persia even waited til we were out of anarchy before so graciously declaring war. The Iroquois can tie up some of their units in fruitless back and forths while we burn some Persian cities (we are burning most Persian cities, right?)
ThinkTank
RL Addict
I saw him live in Amsterdam two weeks ago. It was fantastic! After that show I changed my signature ...
templar_x
usually walks his talks
i have the file open now and plan my turns.
tt, i´ve always loved cohen´s poetry and after what you said i am even more excited that i´ll finally see him live soon.
but for today i´ll keep in mind the lyrics of one of his famous songs especially... "first, we take manhatten, then, we take PERSEPOLIS"
tt, i´ve always loved cohen´s poetry and after what you said i am even more excited that i´ll finally see him live soon.
but for today i´ll keep in mind the lyrics of one of his famous songs especially... "first, we take manhatten, then, we take PERSEPOLIS"
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