Ukraine Crisis News Thread

[Aleksey_aka_al]

You forgot to tell that it was Soviet Lithuanian Red Army.

 

[bugwar]

From the article:

“Almost 100,000 soldiers are stationed on the borders of Ukraine and in the direction ... of Kharkiv, Donetsk,” Andriy Parubiy, chairman of Ukraine’s national security council, said via a webcast from Kiev.
“Russian troops are not in Crimea only, they are along all Ukrainian borders. They’re in the south, they’re in the east and in the north,” Parubiy said.
After its intervention in the Crimean Peninsula, Russia is plotting to foment separatist sentiment elsewhere and Kiev fears a possible incursion in the country’s east, he told the Atlantic Council, a Washington think tank.
Parubiy said any day “we might see a huge attack on the territory of continental Ukraine and we are getting ready for it.”

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/article/...raine-Says-100-000-Russian-Troops-Near-Border


Getting Ready For It?

I guess that means they have stockpiled white flags, and have enough busses laid on to evacuate their forces out of the country.

 

[Gucumatz]

Do you think we will see any stronger action from the west if the Russians do finish taking Eastern Ukraine?

 

[fizikis]

Unarmed people were shot by "mysterious snipers" from the roofs of neighboring buildings. Just as in Kiev, what a coincidence.

Dude, too soon. You can't rewrite history if most people still actually remember what happened.

You forgot to tell that it was Soviet Lithuanian Red Army.

Not sure if serious.


Link to video.

 

[red_elk]

Dude, too soon. You can't rewrite history if most people still actually remember what happened.

Well, sorry to discredit your state mythology, but the sooner it will be uncovered, the better.

 

[Verbose]

Well, sorry to discredit your state mythology, but the sooner it will be uncovered, the better.

That's the problem with post-Soviet Russian; everything means its exact reverse.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Neeeeews!

West ignores results of int’l missions that found no troop build-up near Ukraine borders – Moscow

...In the past few days, Western media has extensively reported that Russia is positioning its troops in Crimea and along the Ukrainian border. Some of the major news outlets speculated that Russian troops“appeared to be concealing their positions, trying to cloak their equipment, and establishing supply lines.”
Responding to those accusations, Russia’s Foreign Ministry issued a statement, in which it recalled four probes in March by foreign missions in Russia of regions bordering Ukraine.
The ministry said that“even Ukrainian inspectors”agreed that“there were no major military activities being carried out.”
The four international missions included representatives of Latvia, Germany, Switzerland, Finland, Estonia, Belgium, France and Ukraine. None of the missions“found ‘aggressive preparations’ and have not recorded any military activities, aside from the previously declared,”the statement said.

“Opportunities to conduct such activities were provided to all those who wished to get acquainted with the real situation in the border with Ukraine regions,”the ministry said.
The statement emphasized that“even Ukrainian inspectors”agreed that“there were no major military activities being carried out.”

“The result of this was the official reports submitted to all OSCE member states. The objective information contained in those reports, in our view, should have become a subject of an impartial analysis and basis for further conclusions,”the statement said.
This, however, is not the case here, the ministry said.

As another proof that there are no additional Russian troops and active military preparations, the Foreign Ministry referred to recentobservation flights
by American and German inspectors.

“The official results of those flights will be known later, after the processing of photographic materials. However, one can assume that if signs of large concentration of the armed forces were spotted from the air, our partners would not wait to present the ‘evidence’. Hence, it simply does not exist,”the ministry said.
Russia’s Foreign Ministry also questioned the objectivity of Western politicians.

"Is objective information collected by military inspectors not provided to the political leadership [of Western countries]? Or are these leaders, yielding to their emotions, inclined to ignore the facts in order to satisfy their own political tastes and preferences?"the ministry said.

 

[Chazcon]

Random thoughts in no particular order:

The people of Ukraine (or a small group of them) stormed the capitol demanding the ouster of their leader. The will of the people in action? Russia there, close by and ready to take advantage of the situation and bring back into the fold Crimea and soon all of Ukraine.

The West is outraged. The Ukrainian people have spoken, they should be able to determine their own destiny without thug Russia moving in right? The only reason for all the outrage is that the Ukrainian government was not playing ball with the West. A Westernized Ukraine is a great asset to counter Russia. Get other countries to do your dirty work for you.

What if revolutionaries stormed England's Parliament or the American white house? Why, they'd be shot down like dogs in the streets. America didn't allow the South to determine their own destiny round about 1860 now did they? Being deposed as a leader is a lot different from watching another leader being deposed.

America is not weak but is hampered by weak leadership, and all the world knows it. Strong talk of red lines that cannot be crossed, and then complete folding up after they are crossed. Meaningless sanctions and freezing of personal assets and threats that are only hot air. It smacks of 1938. But comparisons to German expansionism before World War 2 are completely missing the boat - the West compares Putin to Hitler but forgets to compare Obama to Chamberlain.

Putin knows the current weakness of the West well and is taking advantage of it. He and the Russian leadership are playing a dangerous game, but not too dangerous because they know all the West will do is wring their hands and talk talk talk. They have Crimea and Ukraine is coming up next, and no one will do anything real to stop it. But, why shouldn't Russia incorporate Ukraine? Ukraine's out, Ukraine's in, isn't that their business and not ours? It feels very 1980 or 1967 or 1939 or 1809 doesn't it? We haven't seen such aggression for fifty years and we've become soft.

You land four armored divisions in Ukraine and then let's see how aggressive Putin remains. But war weariness is not just a factor in the game of Civilization, it is real in the real world and America has been drained by the liberal-controlled media's twist on the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. It sucks if YOU are the casualty, but put in a historical perspective, casualties in both those wars combined have been nothing. We lost that many men in a day, every day in World War 2. The way America goes to war, real war, is when we have been directly attacked or pushed far into a corner. Proactive military behavior is political suicide.

Modern people believe we have become civilized and there is no need for violence and fighting, everything can be worked out, talked out. We have these great brains and have developed such amazing technology. But still we are human beings, ruled by human nature. We are not so far from out original form, our primeval ancestors. Not very far along at all historically speaking. Every day all over the world we fight and hurt and kill each other. Our entertainment is all about violence. Sports are nothing but war without killing. Our favorite movies are all about violence and killing. We cry and scream about gun violence and in the next second we turn on our favorite crime show on TV and pay Hollywood millions to feed us a constant stream of it.

The Ukraine situation is a good reminder that nothing has changed, that we are not past wars and aggression. The question of should Russia take back Ukraine is not even the point, and honestly I don't know the answer to that one way or another. It's all very interesting to witness history happening before our eyes and to see how our own leaders are handling it. History in the making, not just read from a book.

Very interesting indeed.

 

[Verbose]

What if revolutionaries stormed England's Parliament or the American white house? Why, they'd be shot down like dogs in the streets.

Protesters in Kiev were shot like dogs in the streets, over a hundred of them. It just didn't work out like it was supposed to. It happens sometimes, when the crowd in the street turns out to be bloody minded enough. Then it's a revolution.

 

[red_elk]

It happens sometimes, when the crowd in the street turns out to be bloody minded enough. Then it's a revolution.

Sometimes a proper shooting is even necessary to turn people bloody minded enough. If revolution can't commence otherwise.

 

[gay_Aleks]

Of more amusing news: Darth Vader is a candidate for the Ukraine president elections.

Sith Lord Darth Vader has decided to join the Ukrainian presidential campaign. His program involves re-forging the republic of Ukraine into an empire and restoring its former glory.

Vader, the former Jedi Master Anakin Skywalker, won the primaries of the Ukrainian Internet Party, the group said in a statement. He is to be officially proposed for presidential candidacy on Saturday at a party session.

“I am prepared to take responsibility for the fate of this country, if fellow citizens do me this high honor. I alone can make an empire out of a republic, to restore former glory, to return lost territories and pride for this country,” the Sith lord said.

Darth Vader has previously taken part in several political actions in Ukraine. The most recent was in November 2013, when he was carried in a sedan chair by a group of Imperial Stormtroopers to Odessa City Hall, declaring himself acting mayor of the city, citing an order by Emperor Palpatine.
Link

Judging by the last paragraph however, it seems Darth Vader is Russian, since we all know Putin is secretly Emperor Palpatine.

 

[bugwar]

From the article:

Some people are making sure their cars stay gassed up, in case their families need to flee advancing tanks.
Others are stockpiling food so they can dig in if there is an invasion.
A few talk about learning to shoot. Nearly everyone is worried.
Tens of thousands of Russian soldiers are massed along the Ukrainian border, U.S. officials report, with large contingents gathered near the Donetsk region in eastern Ukraine.
Russian officials say the troops are conducting routine exercises.
On Saturday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Moscow has no intention of using them against Ukraine.
...
“I am really afraid Russia will invade us,” said Aleksey Ryabchyn, a 30-year-old husband and father and a second lieutenant in the army reserve, as he chatted in a cafe.
“Putin doesn’t follow logic — no one expected him to annex Crimea.
I don’t think the U.S. will fight for us.
We are on our own.”
...
Taruta was appointed to the office by the new government in Kiev, which took over after President Viktor Yanukovych fled the country Feb. 22 following months of protests in favor of good government and closer ties with Europe rather than Russia.
...
“It’s important to understand that America needs not only to hold negotiations but to provide guarantees to Ukraine of territorial integrity,” he said.
“We have the impression the West is more interested in the economic situation than in democracy.
The Ukrainian people feel betrayed.”
He was referring to the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, in which the United States persuaded Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons in return for a guarantee of protection from Britain, the United States and, ironically, Russia.
In business, Taruta said, when you sign an agreement, you follow through.

Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...1c464f-342f-4c00-a1c3-66792092e72a_story.html


Interesting comment by the Ukrainian Second Lieutenant:
"I don’t think the U.S. will fight for us."

I would have thought he would say '...ALONGSIDE us'.
Kinda hard to feel for the plight of those who won't defend themselves.

 

[Gucumatz]

Not everyone's Rambo

 

[LamaGT]

From the article:

Some people are making sure their cars stay gassed up, in case their families need to flee advancing tanks.
Others are stockpiling food so they can dig in if there is an invasion.
A few talk about learning to shoot. Nearly everyone is worried.
Tens of thousands of Russian soldiers are massed along the Ukrainian border, U.S. officials report, with large contingents gathered near the Donetsk region in eastern Ukraine.
Russian officials say the troops are conducting routine exercises.
On Saturday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Moscow has no intention of using them against Ukraine.
...
“I am really afraid Russia will invade us,” said Aleksey Ryabchyn, a 30-year-old husband and father and a second lieutenant in the army reserve, as he chatted in a cafe.
“Putin doesn’t follow logic — no one expected him to annex Crimea.
I don’t think the U.S. will fight for us.
We are on our own.”
...
Taruta was appointed to the office by the new government in Kiev, which took over after President Viktor Yanukovych fled the country Feb. 22 following months of protests in favor of good government and closer ties with Europe rather than Russia.
...
“It’s important to understand that America needs not only to hold negotiations but to provide guarantees to Ukraine of territorial integrity,” he said.
“We have the impression the West is more interested in the economic situation than in democracy.
The Ukrainian people feel betrayed.”
He was referring to the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, in which the United States persuaded Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons in return for a guarantee of protection from Britain, the United States and, ironically, Russia.
In business, Taruta said, when you sign an agreement, you follow through.

Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...1c464f-342f-4c00-a1c3-66792092e72a_story.html


Interesting comment by the Ukrainian Second Lieutenant:
"I don’t think the U.S. will fight for us."

I would have thought he would say '...ALONGSIDE us'.
Kinda hard to feel for the plight of those who won't defend themselves.

I think you just don't realize how weak the Ukrainian army is. They may have a lot of men but the tanks, planes and such are in terrible shape. In short, anyone who would actually want to fight would be slaughtered, and the rest would just cheer the Russians.

Those reports in the article seem extremely cherrypicked to me, I really don't think any sizable group in Donetsk would oppose the Russian troops, sure many wouldn't feel exactly comfortable but that's a long way from partisan warfare. It's like that guy thinks the Russians' coming will be like a Mongol invasion, a fine example of journalism including people like that in the interview.

 

[bugwar]

Not everyone's Rambo

Quite right.
Still, you would think that those in the officer corps would have a bit of intestinal fortitude.

I believe it is difficult for a nation to risk their soldiers to aid a country that won't even fight for itself.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Concerning the left photo.

There were multiple interviews with Ukrainian military where they've described the stupid situtation they were in: how they were holding a Ukrainian military base while on the other side of the fence were their relatives with Russian flags. Many of them joined the Crimean/Russian forces after the referendum.

Like this one:

Spoiler :

Link to video.

***

Not sure if serious.

Serious. You prefer to pretend it was not that way, but it was exactly this: Lithuanians were on both sides, just like Russians were on both sides in 1993 killing each other.

Just like it was in 1940 and earlier, when Lithuanians were on both the nationalist and Soviet side against each other. Polarization of evil Russians/Soviets vs innocent Lithuanians/non-Soviets was added later through historical revisionism. In the reality, they were all mixed, and Lithuanians had enough of Bolsheviks, Reds, Soviets, and mass repressions (against them, commies).

The same with Latvia and Estonia.

 

[red_elk]

Still, you would think that those in the officer corps would have a bit of intestinal fortitude.

3/4 of marine battalion in Crimea sided with Russian army. That one was considered as elite forces - but consisted mostly of local Crimean people to be fair.
Officers retained their ranks.

I believe it is difficult for a nation to risk their soldiers to aid a country that won't even fight for itself.

It would be something like New Mexico fighting against Texas.

 

[bugwar]

It would be something like New Mexico fighting against Texas.

Or better yet, like the American colonial's fighting against their British overlords.
Or even like the Afghans taking on the Ruskies.
Or for the sake of argument, like the Uncle Ho's dudes waging war against the Americans.



Just cause it ain't a fair fight doesn't mean you throw in the towel before the starting bell rings.

 

[Verbose]

Just cause it ain't a fair fight doesn't mean you throw in the towel before the starting bell rings.

Neither does not throwing a pointless punch when the bell rings necessarily mean a default. Sometimes the real troubles begin after mission accomplished has been declared.

 

[red_elk]

No, what I mean is that fighting in this situation would mean shooting your fellow countrymen. Which is (luckily) considered as insanity by many people here and in Ukraine. It would be like Americans fighting war against other Americans in present day situation. It's still very far from civil war.