Ukraine Crisis News Thread

[ReindeerThistle]

News thread, people... keep the discussion civil.

 

[red_elk]

When did this start to be about Ukraine again?

I don't recall if it stopped to.
You were talking about Russians "fighting cognitive dissonance" and "pumping up potential enemy figures". In quite patronizing tone, assuming you certainly understand the situation better than they are.

The other aspect of all this, is that I enjoy a transparent, distinctly uncorrupt representative system of government, where political hidden agendas are, by the very functioning of the system, extremly difficult to even attempt.

Me too. I'm also for world peace.

The present situation just currently comforts you. The next round of developments might not, but you by definition is unable to have a better idea than I.

My understanding of the situation in Russia and possible developments are not better than yours? By definition?

 

[DinoDoc]

News thread, people... keep the discussion civil.

Back to our regularly scheduled coverage of:

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Nice graphic, Dino...

Russia not clinging to G8 if West does not want it – Russian FM

Published time: March 24, 2014 18:09
Edited time: March 25, 2014 05:28
Russia is not clinging to the G8 format, as all major world problems can be discussed at other international venues such as G20, Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has said.

“The G8 is an informal club, no one gives out membership cards and no one can expel members,” Lavrov told a media conference at the Hague. “If our Western partners believe that this format has exhausted itself, let it be. We are not clinging to it.”

He went on to say that many believe that the G8 has already fulfilled its mission as many issues are now discussed at the G20 forum.

“Generally speaking, there are also other formats for considering many questions, including the UN Security Council, the Middle East Quartet and the P5+1 on the Iranian nuclear problem,” Lavrov told journalists.

The Minister also commented on earlier reports regarding Australia considering not inviting President Vladimir Putin to the November G20 meeting, which is going to be held in Brisbane.

“The G20 was not established by Australia, which voiced the proposal not to invite Russia to the meeting. We created the format all together,” Lavrov said.

In sharp contrast to the G7 leaders, the BRICS nations have expressed strong support of Russia and its president, the Times of India reported.

Ministers from Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa (BRICS) have met on the sidelines of the nuclear summit and issued a joint statement, in which among other issues they expressed concerns over the statement of Australia’s foreign minister that President Putin should be prevented from attending the G20 summit.

"The ministers noted with concern the recent media statement on the forthcoming G20 summit to be held in Brisbane in November 2014. The custodianship of the G20 belongs to all member-states equally and no one member-state can unilaterally determine its nature and character," the BRICS statement said.

Meanwhile, G7 leaders – Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the UK and the US – are also holding a gathering at The Hague. According to the media, the Ukraine issue is high on the agenda.

Russia’s top diplomat is in the Netherlands, where representatives of over 50 states and chiefs of the UN, the EU, the International Atomic Energy Agency and the European Police Office have gathered for the Nuclear Security Summit to address the threat of nuclear terrorism.

 

[red_elk]

All military facilities in Crimea are left by Ukrainian army. Yesterday, the last ship in Donuzlav lake was seized by Russian special forces. In total, about 90% of Ukrainian army personnel decided to continue serving in Russian army.

Today, Ukrainian media reported that military dolphins in Sevastopol also have switched sides and will serve in Russian navy.

http://vesti.ua/krym/44387-krymskie-boevye-delfiny-pereshli-na-storonu-rossii
http://en.ria.ru/military_news/2014...litary-Dolphins-to-Serve-in-Russian-Navy.html

 

[red_elk]

Interior ministry of Ukraine issued an order to arrest Crimean chief prosecutor, N. Poklonskaya.



Prior to Crimean crisis, she worked as a prosecutor in Kiev. Visiting her parents in Crimea, she offered help to local authorities, in order to "prevent possible chaos which happened in Kiev"

 

[dexters]

Nice graphic, Dino...

Russia not clinging to G8 if West does not want it – Russian FM

That's just posturing and threats. BRIC or alternatively BRICS is a grouping acronym that refers to the countries of Brazil, Russia, India and China (South Africa) "which are all deemed to be at a similar stage of newly advanced economic development."

They have little in common and some have major strategic opposition to each other. If Europe is considered spineless and fractious the BRICS would be many orders or magnitude worse. More closely resembling the Europe pre WW2.

If this was an economic dispute maybe the BRIC/S could formulate a common strategy, but over the long term, as a political grouping, it's just a useful tool for investors in the early part of the 21st century to figure and define the 'emerging market'. The irony certainly doesn't escape me given BRIC as a formulation is a western one. It's not even indigenous to the countries who claim it as some sort of counterbalance to the current world order.

Edit: And with RussiaToday being the source, it's really just a joke story/propaganda story.

 

[red_elk]

Ukrainian court bans Russian TV broadcast

The majority of Ukrainian providers have stopped broadcasting four main Russian TV channels in a move the Russian Foreign Ministry calls a violation of international obligations and an attack on media freedom.

“It certainly can be considered only in terms of the an attack on democratic freedoms, and a violation of international obligations by Ukraine,” the ministry's commissioner on human rights Konstantin Dolgov told RIA Novosti.

Dolgov says that Kiev's court decision to ban Russian TV content violates “every right to watch television and have access to media in Russian.”

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-court-bans-russian-tv-245/

 

[Mustakrakish]

Didn't they close off Ukrainian TV in Crimea?

 

[Lone Wolf]

Russian government have also blocked access to a bunch of liberal websites.

(On a side note, all this official forbidding access to websites is slightly wacky. For a while Guy Halsall's blog - I am speaking of CFC WH's favourite Antiquity historian - was blocked for some reason).

 

[red_elk]

Didn't they close off Ukrainian TV in Crimea?

I don't know. Anyway, I reported about censorship in Ukraine - if you want to criticize Russia for doing something similar, it is... how it's called.. whataboutism!

Russian government have also blocked access to a bunch of liberal websites.

Which ones?

 

[Mustakrakish]

I don't know. Anyway, I reported about censorship in Ukraine - if you want to criticize Russia for doing something similar, it is... how it's called.. whataboutism!

You're being whataboutist about whataboutism!

On a serious note, I don't quite get what whataboutism about... Um.. let's try again.

On a serious serious note, as much as I understand... it, justifying an action because someone else did something similar many years ago is whataboutism the posters spreak about here. Not retaliation to an action within same crisis.

 

[dexters]

Assuming the news report is accurate, which hasn't been proven given its sourced from RT, it would be titfortat behavior. One side bans one thing the other bans another in retaliation. The fact that there appears to be difficulty understanding whatsboutism while sourcing solely for RT is the height of the ignorance. Understandable coming from a Russian nationalist but quite embarrassing for the hangers on.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[red_elk]

Assuming the news report is accurate, which hasn't been proven given its sourced from RT, it would be titfortat behavior.

The report about Russia banned something seems to be thoroughly proven to you, though not sourced at all
And what's wrong about RT, comparing to CNN or BBC?

...height of the ignorance. Understandable coming from a Russian nationalist but quite embarrassing for the hangers on.

Your butthurt is understandable too, but resorting to personal attacks won't serve you well

 

[dexters]

The report about Russia banned something seems to be thoroughly proven to you, though not sourced at all

Someone mentioned Russians had banned Ukranian outlets and you not only did not object, you went on a tagent about 'whataboutism' and completely misunderstood the critique you were trying to mock. So you've self confirmed.

I merely took both incidents as a given, for the sake of argument, and explained that if Ukrainans banned Russian outlets in response to Russians doing the same, it is not whataboutism but a tit-for-tat exchange. Not that hard to understand really.

And what's wrong about RT, comparing to CNN or BBC?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)#Criticism

And yes using a neutral /prestigious or heck western source would be even better

Your butthurt is understandable too, but resorting to personal attacks won't serve you well

My butt is not hurting. Canada stands to gain from this geopolitical disaster Russia is engaging on. Our prime minster is a hawk, but don't let that blind you from the fact that this is indeed a geopolitical blunder for your country.

W

 

[red_elk]

Someone mentioned Russians had banned Ukranian outlets

Someone asked, whether Ukrainian outlets were banned in Crimea, not giving any source. And someone else declared it a tit-for-tat behavior without checking if it's true or whether Ukraine acted in response to that. Expressing distrust to original report, which was sourced.

and you not only did not object, you went on a tagent about 'whataboutism' and completely misunderstood the critique you were trying to mock.

I understood it as an attempt to discredit the opponent's (Russian) position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position (not censoring Ukrainian channels), without disproving the opponent's initial argument (Ukraine is censoring Russian channels).
Is something wrong with that? SickFak's reply didn't address my point about Ukraine behaving in a non-democratic way, instead focused on criticizing Russia allegedly doing something similar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT_(TV_network)#Criticism

It is a wikipedia page, filled mostly with opinions of journalists published in other media outlets which can be similarly criticized for being biased or subjective. Is this channel known for giving factually wrong information?

 

[dexters]

I understood it as an attempt to discredit the opponent's (Russian) position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position (not censoring Ukrainian channels), without disproving the opponent's initial argument (Ukraine is censoring Russian channels).

It's possible but the post was quite neutral to me. Just stating their facts. you could have objected to it but did not.

It is a wikipedia page, filled mostly with opinions of journalists published in other media outlets which can be similarly criticized for being biased or subjective. Is this channel known for giving factually wrong information?

This makes no sense. Journalists are not the enemy.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

This makes no sense. Journalists are not the enemy.

That's right, RT journalists are your friends!

 

[red_elk]

It's possible but the post was quite neutral to me.

For me too. I even made a joke in response, which he apparently understood.

 

[Ajidica]

I haven't been following the situation too closely (my own fault) but what evidence is there that the referendum election was rigged on any level beyond what we would expect from Russia/Ukraine?
I read that many Ukrainians and Tatars boycotted the referendum leading to the Middle Eastern dictator levels of approval at IIRC, 87% but boycotting an election does not render it invalid.