Ukrainian Crisis thread 1.2

[Kozmos]

Ah yes, the spontaneous self-defense groups sporting Penchengs, modern automatic rifles with grenade launchers and optics, tanks, self-propelled arty, EMW suites and triple A systems. Paid leaves and feel free to borrow the equipment. Hallmark of a modern, disciplined army.

 

[FriendlyFire]

a war where Ukraine is attacking

In Russia attack means retreating.

 

[LamaGT]

Ah yes, the spontaneous self-defense groups sporting Penchengs, modern automatic rifles with grenade launchers and optics, tanks, self-propelled arty, EMW suites and triple A systems. Paid leaves and feel free to borrow the equipment. Hallmark of a modern, disciplined army.

The weapons they have are AK74s, RPK and other old stuff. I've never seen Pechenegs, though I'm sure you can enlighten me on that. Grenade launchers and optics are often used by Ukrainian soldiers, there are many ways for the rebels to get them. The rest is obtained from a variety of sources.
They were spontaneous once, in April-May when an RPK was the heaviest weapon they could possibly use. It seems people have a really short memory.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

The leaders of Germany and France ended more than five hours of talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday without announcing any agreement to end fighting in east Ukraine.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/06/us-ukraine-crisis-talks-end-idUSKBN0LA2F020150206

this is just for fun:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/06/vladimir-putin-west-divisions-war-ukraine

 

[BirraImperial]

Ah yes, the spontaneous self-defense groups sporting Penchengs, modern automatic rifles with grenade launchers and optics, tanks, self-propelled arty, EMW suites and triple A systems. Paid leaves and feel free to borrow the equipment. Hallmark of a modern, disciplined army.

Because former Ukraine or former Russian military aren't allowed to join a separatist movement...using Soviet-era weapons found all over Ukraine...capturing deserters and their weapons, like it actually happened already...

 

[Kozmos]

The weapons they have are AK74s, RPK and other old stuff. I've never seen Pechenegs, though I'm sure you can enlighten me on that. Grenade launchers and optics are often used by Ukrainian soldiers, there are many ways for the rebels to get them. The rest is obtained from a variety of sources.
They were spontaneous once, in April-May when an RPK was the heaviest weapon they could possibly use. It seems people have a really short memory.

We're not looking at the same guns then. Obtained from a variety of sources meaning across the eastern border? I struggle to see where else would someone import an armored convoy.

 

[red_elk]

Obtained from a variety of sources meaning across the eastern border?

Ukrainian officials themselves said the amount of weapons in Eastern Ukraine military bases and warehouses is enough to maintain war for many years. At the beginning of the conflict, many rebels had only WW2 era equipment, SKS carbines and PTRS guns.

As for Pechenegs - Ukrainian facebook warriors already "destroyed" dozens of Armata tanks - which are currently in a development stage in Russia.

 

[Kyriakos]

Ukrainian officials themselves said the amount of weapons in Eastern Ukraine military bases and warehouses is enough to maintain war for many years. At the beginning of the conflict, many rebels had only WW2 era equipment, SKS carbines and PTRS guns.

As for Pechenegs - Ukrainian facebook warriors already "destroyed" dozens of Armata tanks - which are currently in a development stage in Russia.

'Pechenegs'??

Historically they faired really poorly against the (originally gifted from Russian princes) Varangian guard. 1122

 

[LamaGT]

We're not looking at the same guns then. Obtained from a variety of sources meaning across the eastern border? I struggle to see where else would someone import an armored convoy.

Clearly we aren't. Would you care bringing up evidence of those Pechenegs?
I don't imagine it being too hard, it was legitimately possible to find soldiers with them at some point, but I'm curious what's your source for that.

 

[red_elk]

Munich security conference which is going on with a participation of USA and Russia, gives better chances of some constructive result.
http://rt.com/news/230199-munich-conference-ukraine-conflict/

Hopefully, they'll come up with some sort of Munich agreement.

 

[red_elk]

"Ukrainian army is able to capture whole Russia" - former Georgian president, M. Saakashvili said in interview to Ukrainian TV channel 24TV.
http://24tv.ua/news/showNews.do?ukr...piti_vsyu_rosiyu__saakashvili&objectId=540711

I think, Ukrainian authorities should follow his advises - immense experience of Georgian leader in victorious battles against Russia can ensure similar success of Ukraine in this field.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Speaking at the Munich security conference on Saturday, the German chancellor said she wanted to secure peace in Europe with Russia and not against it.

Germany has opposed aiding Ukrainian troops for fear of worsening the conflict, which has already cost more than 5,000 lives, but the idea has many supporters in Washington.

“I cannot imagine any situation in which improved equipment for the Ukrainian army leads to President Putin being so impressed that he believes he will lose militarily,” Merkel said. “I have to put it that bluntly.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-solved-by-military-means-says-angela-merkel

 

[red_elk]

German chancellor said she wanted to secure peace in Europe with Russia and not against it.

Voice of wisdom.
Why not create a security organization in Europe with Russia participation?
Which would guarantee a joint response in case of attack from external force, or even from member of organization?
And leave NATO to America and their satellites only.
This would solve virtually all of security problems and disputes between Europe and Russia.

 

[LamaGT]

Voice of wisdom.
Why not create a security organization in Europe with Russia participation?
Which would guarantee a joint response in case of attack from external force, or even from member of organization?
And leave NATO to America and their satellites only.
This would solve virtually all of security problems and disputes between Europe and Russia.

It's probably a bit late for that. I don't really see a peaceful resolution lasting for long. Europe and Russia might not want war, but everyone else does.

 

[gay_Aleks]

'Pechenegs'??

Historically they faired really poorly against the (originally gifted from Russian princes) Varangian guard. 1122

However, they were rather nice against medieval knights and stupid Byzantines raising the taxes.

 

[red_elk]

German intelligence estimate number of killed people since the beginning of conflict in Ukraine, as 50.000. Which is almost by the order of magnitude exceeds official Kiev data.
http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2663611

 

[red_elk]

Speaker of DPR People's Soviet, Denis Pushilin said that in order to achieve permanent cease-fire in Donbass, creation of demilitarized zone is required, as well as presence of peacekeeper force in the region.
http://lenta.ru/news/2015/02/08/pushilin/

Earlier, UN representative stated that decision to send UN peacekeepers in Ukraine can be made by UNSC, but Ukraine request is required for that.
http://lenta.ru/news/2015/02/06/mirotvorec/

According to Poroshenko, Ukraine at the moment doesn't need a peacekeeper operation.

 

[Borachio]

German intelligence estimate number of killed people since the beginning of conflict in Ukraine, as 50.000. Which is almost by the order of magnitude exceeds official Kiev data.
http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2663611

That's a lot of people. And it's a shocking waste of human effort. If nothing else.

 

[Algeroth]

This happened in Donetsk. No idea if it was humanitarian buckwheat or what.


Link to video.

Link to video.

 

[nc-1701]

Christ, that's huge. Probably an ammunition dump chemical factory got hit? I'm pretty curious now.