Ukrainian Crisis thread 1.2

I'd name a banch of hostel owners in Crimea who would never allow Westerners, especially Germans, to their rooms to avoid heavy drinkers and brawl.

Not allow ze Germans ?
The Germans cant even stop the Germans. :mischief: Good luck trying to hold back Germans without the US and British this time to help with a second front and carpet bombing


Liner with German tourists arrived in the Crimea, ignoring EU sanctions

A German-operated cruise liner has traveled to the Crimean port of Yalta in apparent defiance of the Ukrainian government, which has prohibited international vessels from calling at the Black Sea peninsula.

Most of the 500 tourists aboard the "Ocean Majesty," which is owned by a Greek shipping company but chartered by Germany's Bremen-based Hansa Touristik, are likely to be German, the report said.

In line with its own sanctions over Russia's annexation of Crimea, the EU has subjected the Sevastopol and Kerch commercial ports to asset freezes, though the port of Yalta does not appear on its blacklist.

The German operator Hansa Touristik was unavailable for comment

I am sure the Crimea will survive.
Ukraine need Russian gas, Crimea needs Ukraine water.
Germany need Russian gas too, and Russia needs German stuff.

So Iam sure something can be worked out.

Russian Agriculture Minister Nikolai Fyodorov said last month that Ukraine's near closure of the North Crimea Canal would devastate Crimea's agriculture, and cause substantial losses to Crimean farmers, though Russia would compensate them for a portion of those costs.

Ukraine cut the flow of water to Crimea last month to the lowest technically feasible volume, citing outstanding debt on water supplies owed by the peninsula, which Russia annexed

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/busin...fails-over-water-war-with-ukraine/499562.html
 
Man on right has clearly just been snorting cocaine.

Or appears to have been.
 
I do not think either side in this mess quite understands what a ceasefire means, I imagine slow burn fighting will continue before blowing back up into a more violent war.
This time EU attitude is a bit different. Not just desire to put pressure on Russia, but it seems they have real intention to end war. Not sure it will help, though at least their blind support of Ukraine changed to something more constructive.
 
Anybody heard that in Delbacevo out of the 6-8.000 men enclosed by the rebels more then quarter (2.000!) is supposed to be from NATO countries including US special forces and UK paratroopers?
 
Maybe they were there in a bulk-Nato/RAF holiday package?

Yeah, it seems that the active and even adrenalin type of turism is lately becoming very significant segment of turism industry....

Interesting analisis by J. Campbell(googletrans.):
Role of Ukraine as an Assistant US in the fight with the Russian Federation is not for many readers and observers unfortunately obvious, regardless of its objective presence, which demonstrates the following main facts. I am aware of the risk of misunderstanding and criticism associated with a very simplified presentation and analysis of data and facts.

1) MEA (International Energy Agency) states in its forecast in 2020 that the US has the world leader in the exploration and production of crude oil in 2014, an increase in the volume of production by 1.5 million to 11.81 million barrels per day. This is important for a successful attempt to influence the hydrocarbon streams in the world using the chaos in the Middle East. The Russian Federation has given way to second place, with the production volume amounting to 10.31 million barrels per day. This victory over the Russian Federation, the United States can be called a Pyrrhic victory. Why?

At the time of writing these lines, benefitting Russian Federation 10.91 million bpd, and the US officially recognize the value of the bankruptcy of US companies engaged in the oil industry in the amount of US $ 400 billion! At the same time MEA waffles. And that does not take into account the approximately 15 percent of total OPEC production. Correct data to prove that Saudi Arabia is in the lead. This position is important for understanding the role of Ukraine as shale gas reservoirs of USA.

On Thursday, the day of signing Minsk 2, the price of Brent at $ 59.31 a barrel, WTI price of $ 51.28, which is advantageous price dynamics for Moscow and Washington for hemlock. This is confirmed by the French Upstream + Total Gas & Power his public statement that the US can not be competitive with LNG at a price of $ 70 per barrel. The Executive Director of Shell Berden even said that oil-gas and political course of the Obama administration did not materialize. The US needs to either reduce oil production or close, or at least freeze slate deposits. In this newly created stalemate US must decide.

US decision can not be done without Saudi Arabia and without the influence of the Russian Federation. Prognosis MEA 2020 further states that the US will increase production volume only in shale gas from 3.6 to 5.2 million barrels per day. In contrast, stands and more objectively proven reserves of shale gas in the Russian Federation. Already this small list of facts is the large number of possible variations American solving and decision making. The analyst is offering four basic ways to resolve the stalemate and US positions in the hydrocarbon world.

1) Get by with Moscow over Ukraine and increase the price of the barrel,

2) Change the political regime in Moscow

3) Get by with Saudi Arabia against Moscow,

4) Overthrow Saud dynasty

When taking into account the comparison of actual results US forecast 2000-2015, with the recently published four major trends, forecasts from 2015 to 2030, I can not for reasons of time to elaborate on this point, and if I follow the obligations analyst and adviser to take into account the worst case and solution, I can not say anything other than that the stalemate between the US and the Russian Federation will address the extension of military conflict with the participation of Ukraine. Therefore, the Agreement Minsk 2 is only a pause in a larger struggle, and not hope for peace and peaceful arrangement of Ukraine. EU moves to continue in the direction of the so-called collateral damage.

Yeah baby, its about oil. Yet again...
 
Anybody heard that in Delbacevo out of the 6-8.000 men enclosed by the rebels more then quarter (2.000!) is supposed to be from NATO countries including US special forces and UK paratroopers?

I highly doubt there are any regular NATO forces, it's too dangerous. Could be some contractors of private military companies, though not 2000 of them, of course. They would have to rely on Ukrainian military infrastructure/logistics, which currently is a mess.
 
I'm not sure that it being too dangerous is the reason.

More likely their governments wouldn't want to be caught out with their forces in large numbers unofficially in somebody else's country. It simply wouldn't look good.
 
I'm not sure that it being too dangerous is the reason.

More likely their governments wouldn't want to be caught out with their forces in large numbers unofficially in somebody else's country. It simply wouldn't look good.

I assume that's what he meant, as in the danger of them being caught would be too high.
 
Too dangerous in the sense that they may get involved in direct engagement with Russian regulars. With unpredictable consequences.
 
Ah. You see. I was right to have second thoughts after all.

Still. That's a little bit menacing, if you ask me.

And are these the Russian regulars who aren't really there?

http://conflictreport.info/2015/01/23/hard-evidence-the-regular-russian-army-invades-ukraine/

All they show are weapons, which if you investigate can't be conclusively proven to be Russian. In any case that site has been "finding definite evidence" of everything, including the famous buses that got hit, Mariupol, the various Donetsk shellings, supposed Russian tanks that are misidentified Soviet designs etc.
It's merely a propaganda tool, likely handled by the SBU.
 
Summit of Failure: How the EU Lost Russia over Ukraine

Yanukovych was primarily interested in the right-hand column. When he needed money, he had always been in the habit of simply taking it -- from everyone: from his own people; from the Russian Federation; and, of course, also from the EU. Previously, during a stint as prime minister, he had mostly used his power to secure lucrative posts for members of his own clan. Indeed, Yanukovych had enjoyed a dubious reputation dating back to the clan wars in his home region, the Donbass coal basin. Even if he claimed the contrary, he never cared much about Western values. But would Yanukovych really do anything for money?

On Dec. 20, 2010, the Ukrainian Prosecutor General's Office had filed charges against Yulia Tymoshenko accusing her of misuse of state funds. It appeared as though Yanukovych was seeking to get a former political opponent out of the way.

Füle, who is Czech, studied in the 1980s at the Moscow State Institute of International Relations, an institution for the Soviet elite and he speaks fluent Russian, obviating the need for an interpreter. He reminded Yanukovych of his promise to reform the Ukrainian justice system. The EU even had a term, "selective justice," for the arbitrariness that prevailed in the Ukrainian legal system. Füle also reminded Yanukovych that, as expansion commissioner, it was also his job to convince EU member states of why Ukraine should belong to Europe.

Events then proceeded as Füle feared they would. In May, the Prosecutor General's Office indicted Tymoshenko a second time. At this point, she had already been in pre-trial detention for three months. It started to look as though she would get convicted. Füle asked if he could visit her in jail.

The EU had transformed Tymoshenko into a symbol of whether Ukraine was indeed compatible with Europe. If she were released, Kiev would be given the seal of approval for its judiciary. If she remained imprisoned, Ukraine would continue to be stigmatized as a country with an arbitrary legal system.

Two months ago, the European Union and Ukraine officially approved the Ukraine-EU Association Agreement. Brussels had begun paving the way for the "Eastern Partnership" four years ago. The partnership envisions tight political and economic ties between the EU and the six former Soviet republics in Eastern Europe and the Caucasus. The agreements had actually been envisioned as consolation prizes for countries that were unlikely to be granted EU membership at any time in the foreseeable future.

Like so many things in the EU, the Eastern Partnership is also a compromise. The Eastern Europeans, particularly the Poles, would prefer to give Ukraine full EU membership. At the very least, they want some kind of buffer placed between their countries and Moscow. But Southern and Western Europeans are not interested in an additional enlargement round. The result is a complicated situation for EU bureaucrats. Sometimes they get so caught up in policy that they fail to see the forest for the trees.

"You will have to find a solution that is also acceptable to Putin," Pinchuk warned the commissioner. "Things could get difficult with the Russians." But Füle believed he knew the Russians better. "It's always difficult with the Russians," he said.

The Kremlin then proposed to Brussels that negotiations be conducted between the EU and the Eurasion Union -- directly between the two blocs of power. But European Commission President José Manuel Barroso refused to meet with the leaders of the Eurasion Union, a bloc he considered to be an EU competitor.

"One country cannot at the same time be a member of a customs union and be in a deep common free-trade area with the European Union," the commission president said on February 25. He said that Kiev had to decide which path it wanted to take. The message was clear: Kiev had to choose either Brussels or Moscow.

"We will respect whatever choice the Ukrainian government and people make...," he said. "But there are facts that speak for themselves." The statements are far from friendly. Whereas they may have sounded like a promise to those listening in the hall, Putin's comments were both a slap in the face and a threat to the Ukrainian government.

Moscow imposed other measures in an escalation between Moscow and Kiev dubbed by the international media as the "chocolate war". Although the term may sound sweet, the realities were anything but nice.

Ukraine was facing insolvency while, at the same time, Russia was busy heaping pressure on Kiev. Although Russian sanctions had long since indicated otherwise, Berlin and Brussels were not taking Ukrainian concerns, and the country's fear of Russia, seriously. The Ukrainians, they seemed to think, were simply interested in driving up the price for their ultimate signature.

The closer the summit approached, the greater the EU pressure became on the Germans to cease focusing so much attention on the case of Yulia Tymoshenko. The Poles in particular insisted that the issue could not be allowed to torpedo the association agreement. Behind closed doors, President Bronisaw Komorowski said: "Never again do we want to have a common border with Russia." And Germany began to revisit its position as a result, but it was much too late.

Putin had nothing but disdain for Yanukovych, loathing the Ukrainian leader's constant wavering. In the past, he had often left Yanukovych waiting for hours like a supplicant and the Kremlin was convinced of Yanukovych's unreliability. Though the man from eastern Ukraine was much less pro-European than his predecessor, he had continued to stubbornly resist requests from Moscow.

During Putin's meetings with Yanukovych in Sochi and Moscow, Putin promised subsidies and economic benefits worth around $12 billion annually, including discounted prices for oil and natural gas. Conversely, he also threatened to launch a trade war that would drive an already fragile Ukrainian economy to ruin

Barroso was visibly nervous. Ukraine's economy, he said, would profit considerably in the long term from closer ties with the EU. "Poland and Ukraine had roughly the same gross domestic product when the Berlin Wall fell. Now, Poland's is roughly three times as large,"

When the German delegation, under Merkel's leadership, met with Yanukovych the next morning for one final meeting, everything had already been decided. They exchanged their well-known positions one last time, but the meeting was nothing more than a farce. In one of the most important questions facing European foreign policy, Germany had failed.

But Putin, too, had miscalculated. That same night, thousands of demonstrators collected on the Maidan (Independence Square) in Kiev. Three months later, Yanukovych would be forced to flee the country and Putin would annex the Crimean Peninsula. Thus far, the conflict has claimed the lives of 4,000 people and eastern Ukraine remains gripped by war.

Russia and Europe talked past each other and misunderstood one another. It was a clash of two different foreign policy cultures: A Western approach that focused on treaties and the precise wording of the paragraphs therein; and the Eastern approach in which status and symbols are more important.

http://www.spiegel.de/international...ings-between-europe-and-russia-a-1004706.html

POLAND ! :mad:
Thought I cannot blame them for not wanting a border with Germany Russia. :mischief:
 
Ukraine would have been much better served taking a neutral middle ground between the EU and Russia as opposed to wildly swinging from pro-EU and pro-Russia yet never truly becoming a close ally to either.
 
I dont think that Ukraine could be competitive in EU as Czechs and Poles managed to be. It would likely fare more like a Bulgaria or Romania to which particulary membership has proven to be quite destructive. Just the fact that Ukraine wasnt to be offered membership anytime soon speak for itself. And loosing its essential partner, Russia, seems outright insane. Ukraine could have played it smartly and benefit from both sides may be even becoming some sort of bridge between EU and Russia but like this its just continues to become weaker and more dependet day by day on forces outside of itself.

Since the start of the Ukraine crisis, scholars who associate with the realist school of international relations have suggested turning the country into a neutral buffer state between East and West. It’s probably too late for that.

John J. Mearsheimer, a professor of political science at the University of Chicago, most recently made the case in The New York Times, arguing that Russia can never accept a Ukraine that is aligned to the West. Rather, “It should look like Austria during the Cold War” — culturally and economically Western but unaligned to either bloc.

Toward that end, the West should explicitly take European Union and NATO expansion off the table and emphasize that its goal is a nonaligned Ukraine that does not threaten Russia.

Former American national security advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski first suggested in the Financial Times last year that Ukraine should imitate Finland’s Cold War experience, meaning “mutually respectful neighbors with wide-ranging economic relations with Russia and the EU; no participation in any military alliance viewed by Moscow as directed at itself but expanding its European connectivity.”

One of Brzezinski’s predecessors, Henry Kissinger, agreed, writing in The Washington Post that Ukraine “should pursue a posture comparable to that of Finland.”

Kissinger recognized that Ukraine was a divided country: a largely Catholic and Ukrainian-speaking west favored integration with the rest of Europe while the largely Orthodox and Russian-speaking east preferred closer relations with Russia. Efforts by either side to impose their will on the other part of the country marked Ukraine’s post-independence politics. The West, he argued, should “seek reconciliation, not the domination of a faction.”
http://atlanticsentinel.com/2015/02/its-too-late-to-turn-ukraine-into-a-buffer-state/
 
Back
Top Bottom