US 'plans to scrap missile shield'

[Winner]

While I do not believe the missile system in Poland's main objective is to defend against Russia, it would serve to protect the 80,000 US troops stationed in Europe.

So what? Americans have said that this is onbe of their chief goals, which are to protect the US mainland, to protect the US military bases in Europe and to protect European allies.

 

[DinoDoc]

I can't believe there wasn't some horse trading there. The US isn't stupid enough to not have got something in return for this. As I've speculated, pressure on DPRK is my guess

Well they told Obama to go jump in a lake when he offered to scrap it earlier this year for thier help in Iran, so I don't see the reasoning for your contention that they would suddenly be willing to help with North Korea when they aren't even the big dog there (China is) for the exact deal they turned down earlier.

 

[Winner]

Nothing is scrapped and nothing will be scrapped. The US has invested too much money and prestige into this. At the worst case, it will remain frozen during Obama's presidency.

 

[Truronian]

So what? Americans have said that this is onbe of their chief goals, which are to protect the US mainland, to protect the US military bases in Europe and to protect European allies.

Just pointing out that it would not be completely without use in a war with Russia.

 

[Riffraff]

wut? really, what?

Well if it were the same technology, then the Russian interest becomes utterly transparant. Winner made a compelling argument against that though, so this is the only explanation.

 

[Winner]

Just pointing out that it would not be completely without use in a war with Russia.

Wait, you expect that the Russians would shoot from Iran? Because the radar planned here in the Czech Rep. cannot be reoriented against Russia - it will point south-east.

 

[BirraImperial]

Well, given that this shield project supposedly costs an insanely huge amount of money, and given the financial crisis and all, it kinda makes sense to scrap it. Any other news sources confirming this?

 

[Patroklos]

I bet all the US military stationed in Europe and the Far East are quite happy to hear they will finally be coming home. And we can now disband NATO while we are at it, right?

Wait a second, did you just claim that any of our overseas bases are there for the sole (even tangental) purpose of containing Russia? What?!?!?!

I guess we now know who is stuck in the Cold War mentality.

I can't believe there wasn't some horse trading there. The US isn't stupid enough to not have got something in return for this. As I've speculated, pressure on DPRK is my guess

Obama probably traded it for exactly what he said he would. Russia agrees to by our BFF and stop saying mean things and nor our reputation (TM) is safe!!! Good trade eh?

Heh, as you would say. Never thought I'd be crediting the US govt with more sense than you.... I think if they were naieve enough to drop this for free, the US would never have gotten to be as powerful as it is.

Obama had nothing to do with America being as powerful as it is, assuming he will be at all involved in aggrandizing that power or even maintaining it is folly.

While I do not believe the missile system in Poland's main objective is to defend against Russia, it would serve to protect the 80,000 US troops stationed in Europe.

Yes, against Iran. This system would be near useless against IRBMs Russia would use against Europe, they don't fly high enough or on the right ballistic paths.

 

[Flying Pig]

I think our German ones are, hence why even the commanders admit it's like being in Britain

 

[Winner]

Wut?

Let's say that you're building a house. Then you lose your job and don't have money to continue - will you buldoze the house, or wait a while until you have enough money to continue?

 

[Flying Pig]

It's a different situation when it costs you to maintain the half-a-house

 

[ParadigmShifter]

And when you finish your house it turns out it isn't actually very useful for living in.

 

[Truronian]

Wait, you expect that the Russians would shoot from Iran? Because the radar planned here in the Czech Rep. cannot be reoriented against Russia - it will point south-east.

Source?

These guys think it will be possible to rotate it.

EDIT: As does the US Missile Defense Agency.

 

[RalofTyr]

This has more to do with the Obama Administration quietly fixing the utter mess the Bush Adminstration made of things. The whole missile shield program was supported by lobbists and with ties to Bush. Obama's reducing government cost by canceling the sweetheart deals Bush made to his corporate buddies.

 

[Patroklos]

If it makes you feel better to believe that, go ahead.

 

[Winner]

Source?

These guys think it will be possible to rotate it.

EDIT: As does the US Missile Defense Agency.

You're right, what I said was misleading. I meant that it is a tracking radar, which means it sends a narrow high-energy beam which illuminates the target warhead and can provide very accurate data about it (direction, speed, position etc.).

In any case, no part of the US system is any threat to Russia or its interests, so its opposition to the system is a pose and a diversion.

 

[warpus]

The Russians really think that the missile shield was all about them, IMO.

 

[Truronian]

I'm sure in the US's "War with Russia" plan a missile interception station in Eastern Europe would feature. That doesn't mean it's the primary or even a major reason for said station's existence.

(I'm not implying the US wants war with Russia, just that they'll have plans for such an situation)

 

[Elrohir]

The Russian opposition is all but lame, get it in your brainwashed heads once and for all, and start asking questions to yourselves

Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

Why would the USA, out of the blue, build a missile defense system in POLAND claiming that it is for defense against IRAN (maybe some of you have forgotten how it all started, but I do remember this kind of petty excuses) ? A subtle implication that RUSSIA is a threat for EUROPE but the USA are still there, the heroes that will save Europe from the Russian threat once more (they never did, but who cares).

Wether this defense system is useless or it is useful, the political implications of building it in Poland are very clear to anyone that hasn't been brainwashed by anticommunist propaganda for half a century, Bush administration has done everything it could to not let Russia and the UE be on good terms. Such as supporting Kosovo's indipendence but not Abkhazia's one, building a missile defense system in Poland, pressing for Ukraine to join NATO, asking Sarkozy not to mediate with Moscow in the goergian crisis. Etc etc.

Maybe those things have to do with Russia being a jerk, and not helping us with countries defying international condemnation - like, I don't know....Iran? I'm not asserting that the US and Russia haven't had tensions in recent years. All I'm saying is that not everything is about Russia - they just aren't that important. I know that may be hard to believe, but it's true: American foreign policy, and American national security policy, don't revolve around Russia, or what Russians think.

But for the sake of argument, for the moment let's say that this missile system really is a symbolic "US PWNED RUSSIA LOL" gesture. So what? That would make it an immature, very expensive, and totally impractical gesture. It doesn't accomplish anything at all in preventing a Russian attack or counterattack, and leaves the current balance of power completely the same. It doesn't do anything worth getting terribly upset about. What you're basically saying is "OH NOES THEY MADE A SYMBOLIC HORRIBLE SYMBOL." Is that worth targeting European nations with nuclear missiles?

Let me get this straight. You think America is trying to imply that Russia is the bad guy, and America is the good guy by building a system that can't defend against the Russians. And you furthermore think that the appropriate response for Russia to take is to threaten to launch nuclear weapons to take them out, even though they are of no military significance in a war between the US and Russia?

If this is a plot by the US to make the Russians seem like bad guys, it's not working because building a missile defense shields makes everyone hate Russians. It's working because it's just showing how paranoid and lame the Russian government is.

I don't see how one could call lame the russian indignation for this program, or how one could hope that Russia would give away something in change for the program to stop. I think that simply, apparently, Obama has got a bit more of a responsible and cautious approach to foreign politics than G.W. Bush did.

If by 'responsible,' you mean 'willing to trade American security for political assistance that will probably be halfhearted, and won't work' then yes, absolutely!

 

[Flying Pig]

That map's useful - it makes sense now. Carry on...