v20 bugs and crashes

[Koshling]

Anyone took a look at this ? On maps with large bodies of oceans any sea automation is unusable because it increases turn times considerably and makes diplo/map/city screens choppy and slow until all automated units have made their move.

I haven't had chance to loom at this yet via your save game, but it has now reached the top of my list, so it'll be next. However, it sounds very like a general case that got fixed a month or so ago (might have been after v20 release though), so before I delve into is just a check - are you running the latest SVN (or at least latest DLL from the patch thread), or are you running vanilla v20?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I haven't had chance to loom at this yet via your save game, but it has now reached the top of my list, so it'll be next. However, it sounds very like a general case that got fixed a month or so ago (might have been after v20 release though), so before I delve into is just a check - are you running the latest SVN (or at least latest DLL from the patch thread), or are you running vanilla v20?

I have noticed this happening with the latest SVN.

 

[Stormwind]

I haven't had chance to loom at this yet via your save game, but it has now reached the top of my list, so it'll be next. However, it sounds very like a general case that got fixed a month or so ago (might have been after v20 release though), so before I delve into is just a check - are you running the latest SVN (or at least latest DLL from the patch thread), or are you running vanilla v20?

I updated to SVN 1815 where this comes up too. Auto sea explore takes a long time to compute on every unit and auto piracy has this too and behaves different from what I've seen in the past. I put one privateer on auto piracy while in a stack in my cultural borders and nothing happens, except that another privateer in the same stack is awakened from sleep. After moving the priv near the enemy coast it does piracy but it seems to be limited to a certain radius around the plot from where it startet (this might be coincedental). Also it never sleeps for repairs despite no enemy naval units near it. Another general observation is, that the naval AI really likes to hit reefs with their moves

I can post another save with a 100 privs to play around with.

 

[Micael]

A Typo Bug I just found in SVNr1778- the "Australian" Culture Resource needed to build their heroes is called "Austrlian". Hardly major, but.

- Micael

 

[Hydromancerx]

A Typo Bug I just found in SVNr1778- the "Australian" Culture Resource needed to build their heroes is called "Austrlian". Hardly major, but.

- Micael

Thanks for reporting I will go fix it.

 

[Koshling]

I updated to SVN 1815 where this comes up too. Auto sea explore takes a long time to compute on every unit and auto piracy has this too and behaves different from what I've seen in the past. I put one privateer on auto piracy while in a stack in my cultural borders and nothing happens, except that another privateer in the same stack is awakened from sleep. After moving the priv near the enemy coast it does piracy but it seems to be limited to a certain radius around the plot from where it startet (this might be coincedental). Also it never sleeps for repairs despite no enemy naval units near it. Another general observation is, that the naval AI really likes to hit reefs with their moves

I can post another save with a 100 privs to play around with.

The existing one will be fine. I'm sure this will turn out to be (essentially) the same thinge that I addressed in elements of the naval AI a while ago. Basically it boils down to ocean path generation between tiles separated by land on the direct path (so the actual path is very indirect) being extremely expensive to compute. Several AI routines tried to generate paths to potential targets that were literally on the other side of the world. I addressed this by limitting their search to a certain radius (which is probably why you're seing the change in privateer behaviour). It's a tricky balancing act between performance and effectiveness (when the nearest targets really are very distant). For now I'm veering on the side of performance, because the effect is so dramatic. Longer term I need to establish a secondary routine that (if the primary search cannot find anything useful to do) establishes some pre-computed waypoints and just has things move to one of them before searching again (or something similar).

Edit - actually your case was something quite different! It was down to a 'cheat' (IMO) in the AI (and player automation) explore routine. When deciding wheer to move for exploration it considers every tile in a (quite large range) and gives each a score according to how good it would be to go theer for exploration purposes. This score score goody huts you have already revealed very highly, but in their absence it scores unrevealed tiles at 10000, and each unrevealed neighbour at 1000, plus a bonus for coasts and owned tiles. As it enumerates the tiles, for each one that has a higher score than the highest it has so far considered minus a max possible random adjust (see later) it evaluates the path to it, and if it is reachable saves that tile as the best so far along with its score adjusted by a random adjustment to prevent everything always pathing the same way.

This causes a riduculous amount of path generation for two reasons:

1) Adding the random adjust AFTER the pathability check means it has to make the pathability check for all tile score that are within the max random adjust of the best so far. I have changed it to add the random adjust before the pathability check, so that it only has to generate the path if ther result exceeds the best score so far.

2) IMO, even considering tiles that are not even adjacent to something you already know about is basically a cheat! This means the automation/AI can effectively spot nearby coasts by 'magic'. It also means it has to evaluate pathability to nearly every ocean tile, because they all score about the same. I have adjusted it to skip tiles that it doesn't yet know about (so now it considers revealed tiles and tiles adjacent to revelaed tiles - i.e. - your knowledge horizon)

Doing both of these things reduced the time for ONE caraval to perform its automated explore move (from your posted save game, I just hit the automated-explore button for the first caravel that comes up selected on load) from 9.92 seconds to 0.95 seconds. There is still definate room for improvement (evaluate all scores first and sort them, then evaluate paths in reverse score orde,r stopping as soon as one is pathable) but I'll get to that next week. I think the order of magnitude difference the simple changes make justifies pushing this change now...

I have pushed this change to SVN and will also post it on the patch thread (first v21 patch).

 

[Koshling]

Like i said above i have a big paragraph prepared but that dan server keeps going out and when i hit submit it erased it all, so i did take any changes that time and just send what i could, sorry.

But here is another worker, but this time with an escort, BUT why are they even IN my territory, nothing to the right at all??

I think it's heading somewhere to the south and not actively AVOIDING your territory on its way (which it probably should). I'll do something about it when addressing your other cases over the next few days.

 

[strategyonly]

I think it's heading somewhere to the south and not actively AVOIDING your territory on its way (which it probably should). I'll do something about it when addressing your other cases over the next few days.

Is it ok then to delete them from the posted threads then?

 

[Koshling]

Is it ok then to delete them from the posted threads then?

The first 3 yes, but not the last one yet. So far I haven't downloaded that save.

 

[little_cyclone]

I realize V21 was just published, but I ran into a couple of late game bugs while still playing V20 I thought I'd pass along.. Unfortunately I wasn't able to duplicate the carrier/carrier plane upgrade issue I had earlier (and I hadn't saved it then ), but I did run into two other issues.

1)For some reason submarines aren't getting any experience upon construction. They still get initial free promotions from Wonders, but no experience from specialists or civics. If you quick rush a sub from one of the cities in the save it'll demonstrate it appropriately.

2)In the save, at a glance it appears as tho I'm hemmorhaging gold. However, if you end turn, you'll see that I"m actually gaining gold per turn. This started several turns ago when I DoW'd an opponent and launched 2 dozen ICBM's in a rather nasty first strike.

 

[Faustmouse]

V20:

Not sure if really a bug or just stupidity, but in my current game (Deity, ruthless AI, gigantic, slowest gamespeed) Toku and Gengis switched back to chiefdom in the Industrial age. I have no idea why, because they both have over 40 cities and were the techleaders. Now they have much trouble with the unhappieness in their cities and it takes 15 turns to researche old techs (me 5 takes with 40 cities). I build the UN but if I vote for global democracy, they both vote NEVER!

Any idea how to rescue my game?



Also, when i researched Steam Power, my Watermills on ice stoped existing and I wasn't able to build new ones.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

V20:

Not sure if really a bug or just stupidity, but in my current game (Deity, ruthless AI, gigantic, slowest gamespeed) Toku and Gengis switched back to chiefdom in the Industrial age. I have no idea why, because they both have over 40 cities and were the techleaders. Now they have much trouble with the unhappieness in their cities and it takes 15 turns to researche old techs (me 5 takes with 40 cities). I build the UN but if I vote for global democracy, they both vote NEVER!

Any idea how to rescue my game?

Get v21, this problem was fixed in v21 and your save game will work unless you turned off maximum compatability saves which requires you do stuff in the XML so you probably didn't.