v27 and above - Single Player Bug/Crashes report thread

[matt1975]

That IS very odd. I don't like that one bit. maybe try posting a save so I can take a look.

Here's my latest save game; saved in SVN 4454 (if i'm not mistaken).

While you're at it, I've noticed that certain improvements (such as the coal power plant) give -1 health per owned resource. So -3 health if you have 3 coal resources in this example. Is that intended or also a bug?

 

[God-Emperor]

In a recent SVN update the Meat Packing Plant was set to replace the Butchery.

The meat packing planet give +5 food.

The Butcher gives +1 food and +1 for having each of deer, cow, pig, sheep, and poultry for as max of +6.

So that does not directly explain a loss of anything more than 1.

However, they both give the raw meat resource. Perhaps the "real effects" text sees that the replaced building gives the free bonus and calculates the loss of output for any building that requires that resource but does not add them back in due to the meat packing plant also providing the resource (it might, for example, check for a new free resource and find that the meat packing plant's free resource is one you already have and therefore does nothing for it, but not check that the replaced building's free bonus is also replaced and therefore adjust for the presumed loss). There are a few other buildings that require that resource (like the sausage shop, for example) so the -11 might be counting them all as being deactivated due to the supposed loss of the required bonus.

So the question is: if you build it do you really lose that much food per turn or is it just an "actual effects" calculation/text problem?

 

[matt1975]

In a recent SVN update the Meat Packing Plant was set to replace the Butchery.

The meat packing planet give +5 food.

The Butcher gives +1 food and +1 for having each of deer, cow, pig, sheep, and poultry for as max of +6.

So that does not directly explain a loss of anything more than 1.

However, they both give the raw meat resource. Perhaps the "real effects" text sees that the replaced building gives the free bonus and calculates the loss of output for any building that requires that resource but does not add them back in due to the meat packing plant also providing the resource (it might, for example, check for a new free resource and find that the meat packing plant's free resource is one you already have and therefore does nothing for it, but not check that the replaced building's free bonus is also replaced and therefore adjust for the presumed loss). There are a few other buildings that require that resource (like the sausage shop, for example) so the -11 might be counting them all as being deactivated due to the supposed loss of the required bonus.

So the question is: if you build it do you really lose that much food per turn or is it just an "actual effects" calculation/text problem?

That's a very good question and one that is readily answered. I'll get back to you on that. In the mean time, you might be able to check with the save game I provided or one of your own.

 

[Imrahil66]

hello,

i am having CTD during computers turn, i am using win7 64bit, 8GB ram, map giant.

thanks for inspection of the file.

Imrahil66

 

[dusckr87]

i am having CTD during computers turn, i am using win7 64bit, 8GB ram, map giant.

I d/l your save but didn't try to play it. You should include the minidump as well.

 

[Thunderbrd]

In a recent SVN update the Meat Packing Plant was set to replace the Butchery.

The meat packing planet give +5 food.

The Butcher gives +1 food and +1 for having each of deer, cow, pig, sheep, and poultry for as max of +6.

So that does not directly explain a loss of anything more than 1.

However, they both give the raw meat resource. Perhaps the "real effects" text sees that the replaced building gives the free bonus and calculates the loss of output for any building that requires that resource but does not add them back in due to the meat packing plant also providing the resource (it might, for example, check for a new free resource and find that the meat packing plant's free resource is one you already have and therefore does nothing for it, but not check that the replaced building's free bonus is also replaced and therefore adjust for the presumed loss). There are a few other buildings that require that resource (like the sausage shop, for example) so the -11 might be counting them all as being deactivated due to the supposed loss of the required bonus.

So the question is: if you build it do you really lose that much food per turn or is it just an "actual effects" calculation/text problem?

That's interesting. I have a feeling there's some issues with the actual effects calculation where building upgrades are concerned. I think there's been some for a while now. That's a fairly complex routine and I've been a bit afraid to try to sort it all out to be honest.

But that's good news to know that it boils down to that. Interesting that the 'bugged' actual effect is what's being displayed on the food help popup though... I wonder if we're seeing the previous building(s) that was upgraded from listed on there too. That would make a bit of sense if it was.

 

[Thunderbrd]

hello,

i am having CTD during computers turn, i am using win7 64bit, 8GB ram, map giant.

thanks for inspection of the file.

Imrahil66

Downloaded. I now have 2 of these to look into. Obviously, the first thing I'll try is running it on the latest svn version to see if it might've already been resolved.

 

[Imrahil66]

Downloaded. I now have 2 of these to look into. Obviously, the first thing I'll try is running it on the latest svn version to see if it might've already been resolved.

thx for help. Do you need any other files except save file? And is it possible to download SVN version or do I need some login?

 

[strategyonly]

thx for help. Do you need any other files except save file? And is it possible to download SVN version or do I need some login?

Yes, see first post for info needed.

On the SVN, look at the first post of that SVN thread there also, it informs you how to do that also, and thx for playing C2C and asking questions, questions always, especially ideas, always help.


@ Animals Name??

See attached screenie, with question??

 

[Yudishtira]

I've just updated my SVN version for the first time, and now I can't open my old save. My old SVN was around 4417, and I updated it 6.30 this morning (GMT +10) so 16 hours ago. I don't suppose there's anything that can be done about this, but I'm mentioning it on the off-chance.

The reason I risked updating that SVN that was going so well for me (and sorry if this has been done to death and I missed/forgot about it) is I'm trying to build a Healer's Hut. The easiest prereq is the Storage Pit, but that is already obsolete, and it's replacement, the granary, is not a prereq for the HH. Is there an SVN that fixes that at all?

 

[dusckr87]

Is there an SVN that fixes that at all?

Nope. There was talk about doing so, but it went nowhere. I believe no one thinks it needs "fixing".

As far as the save game compatibility goes, 4464 changed the DLL, so maybe that's the problem.

 

[Yudishtira]

Nope. There was talk about doing so, but it went nowhere. I believe no one thinks it needs "fixing".

As far as the save game compatibility goes, 4464 changed the DLL, so maybe that's the problem.

Thanks (sincerely) for the timely and informative reply. I can't get into the new save I created yesterday now, so I think I'll just go back to 4417.

PS: It's not like I feel I need to have the last word or anything, but I'm still firmly of the opinion that it (ie. granary prereq for HH) does need fixing.

 

[Imrahil66]

there is minidumb file for my previous save game.

 

[dusckr87]

PS: It's not like I feel I need to have the last word or anything, but I'm still firmly of the opinion that it (ie. granary prereq for HH) does need fixing.

I agree, but apparently we are the minority. And it's not just the Healer's Hut.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Thanks (sincerely) for the timely and informative reply. I can't get into the new save I created yesterday now, so I think I'll just go back to 4417.

PS: It's not like I feel I need to have the last word or anything, but I'm still firmly of the opinion that it (ie. granary prereq for HH) does need fixing.

The prereqs are storage pit, barter post or trading post. Build one of the others is the reply I was given.

 

[BlueGenie]

Hi again C2C team.

Trying the v27 with some SVN updates and apart from the AI seemingly worse than before (first time in aeons I've been first to Sed Life on Deity) I think I found a "bug" in the building setups.

Fire Pit. Obsoletes at Iron Working. Required to build Bonfire and Imu. Requires Stick Gatherer.
So far so good, no problems there but Stick Gatherer obsoletes at Fire Making.
If I didn't build a Fire Pit before getting Fire Making I'll never be able to build a Bonfire (and subsequently Smoke Signals) or Imu in that city.
If I settle any City after getting Fire Making that City will never be able to build a Bonfire (and subsequently Smoke Signals) or Imu.

I'm all for Fire Pit requiring Stick Gatherer or something else but the building possibilities should then line up and not fade away or break completely.

Cheers


Proposal: Stick gatherer for early on is good. I suggest setting either Stick Gatherer or the resources Wood or Timber. Both of those should enable Fire Pit too.

Cheers

Secondary Bug: Even with a Fire Pit if one builds an Imu before Bonfire the Bonfire is not buildable. The other way around works, Bonfire first and then Imu.

Cheers

 

[strategyonly]

Hi again C2C team.

Trying the v27 with some SVN updates and apart from the AI seemingly worse than before (first time in aeons I've been first to Sed Life on Deity)
Cheers

Welcome back, long time no hear

Yeah, i believe we know about the Deity game stuff, but in the last 2 months, and till now probably after January, everyone is tied up with RL stuff, and nobody, has even a moment "hardly" to look into this problem, buts its only on Deity. You go down a couple of level's now and the AI and especially the Barbarians now, are waaaay better than before(thx to Koshling).

Anyways, nice gearing from you again . . . SO

 

[ls612]

Hi again C2C team.

Trying the v27 with some SVN updates and apart from the AI seemingly worse than before (first time in aeons I've been first to Sed Life on Deity) I think I found a "bug" in the building setups.

Welcome back.

Regarding the AI, the general feeling has been that it has been better, not worse since Koshling overhauled the economic AI in September. Koshling's going to be gone for a while more though, but posting BBAI logs can't hurt, those now provide more info on the AI's economic situation.

 

[DRJ]

Trying the v27 with some SVN updates and apart from the AI seemingly worse than before (first time in aeons I've been first to Sed Life on Deity)

I also experienced that. I think its because a deity start gives a secound settler and that secound city is not connected to capital for some time early on. Also, there are a lot of & for the first turns (think of traits like cruel giving -2 - no worked city tile until oral tradition, as I just endured playing as Aztecs on GEM). The maintenance costs of that early secound city criple the AIs tech rate and the additional troops it builds to protect the city criple it as well.

Atm I suggest to use a modified deity start: set game up as immortal and switch to deity on first turn.

Maybe let AI have the secound settler at deity start when it researched "tracking"?

 

[BlueGenie]

Starting on Immortal will have the AI start with less technologies though. They'll not get Herbalism and Tool Making from start. A better way might be to limit their # of starting units. Currently an Immortal start give the AI a Settler + 7 units while Deity is 2xSettler + 8 units. That amount of starting units should not be a gimping factor though as the Noble difficulty allows for 14 free units, but any extra built due to 2 cities or too many animals taken over will start costing them.
The second city though could be cutting into science progress drastically as there basically IS no income early on in the game so even -2 gold/turn means having to go 30% science to break even, which in turn means +7 unhappy in all cities due to the new +1unhappy/10%tax rate in Anarchism. (this also means one never wants to leave 100% science under Anarchism, which seems a little strange.)
This is being very true regardless when on smaller maps where maintenance is higher for distance. So high in fact that you start with maintenance costs on a single city but have no income for hundreds of years. That should be remedied somehow, best probably by reducing maintenance costs for Anarchism down to just above Chiefdom, or 125/150.
*modifies Civ4CivicInfos.xml to reflect this*

That didn't work. Small map Deity start begins with City Maintenance of 1.15 gold for the player, which is totally absurd when having no means of getting any income for a long while.

*ponders a bit*
Even more reduced income but massive reduction in Anarchism maintenance modifiers might help this as well as help reduce the gimp on the AI with 2 cities. Setting it to another -20 and reducing maintenances to 50/50. Basically if having no income then it's "free-for-all" or no maintenance to talk about, though units will cost, and cost more as there's less income, under Anarchism.
*modifies*
Solved the 1 city 1 gold Maintenance problem for Small Deity start. Have not checked smaller yet maps though.

Those defending units are not really worth having anyway, being only Str 1 units. Cutting that by half might help a little and bring start units down to 6+Settlers.
*modifies Civ4HandicapInfo.xml to reflect this*

As for the happiness depending on Traits that might be fixed/changed soon with the new traits starting to become ready. What can be done though is slightly increase the Happy/Health bonuses for lower difficulties. Will make lower difficulties slightly easier while keeping Emperor and above the same and will give the AI two more Health and Happy to work with. I've been wondering anyway why all levels except Settler had 2 health and 4 happy...
*modifies Civ4HandicapInfo.xml to +1/+3/+2/+2/+1/+1 for Health/Happy modifiers*

What these things don't do is allow the AI to settle a second city fast on a small map, and it seems they don't anyway. Only checked some 15 turns in but not a single AI (4) has settled that second city yet. That's smarter and so far so good.

Going to give a little bigger map (Immense) a test-run, see if the reduced maintenances on bigger maps allow the AI to settle that second city earlier with the settings I've modified.

This needs to be looked at. All Civs on Immense/Eternal/Deity disbanded their second Band of Homo Sapience for 9 gold gain within 25 turns. All 5 AI that were in the game.
Unfortunately I don't have the know-how to check it further.

Other than that I'm hoping the changes I made allows for a more competitive AI on Deity level. Going to do a real game to find out.

Cheers