What are "American Values"?

[Kozmos]

The Catholic Faith is the only perfect and complete Christianity. Eastern Orthodox are schismatic Christians. Protestantism is imperfect Christianity due to heresy in one form or another.

Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christian. Baptists (and Evangelicals) are more extreme versions of Protestants. There is no such thing as "non-denominational." If you are not part of the One Church, you are part of one of thousands of heretical sects that have sprung up over the years.

Wow you would be a good Inquisitor in W40K game.However you are still going on the torch wielding fanatic list.

Anyway XD at idea of John HSOG being a Chinese jet pilot.Made me chuckle.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I just think that it is funny that Inqvisitor, while upholding the virtues of Catholicism (which is ok in its own right) as against the failings or lack of contributions of all other groups (not just historically false, but kind of intolerant), takes his username from one of the practices of the Catholic church that was most evil, and which even many Catholics abhor. The Inquisition? In my opinion, the US avoided such an atrocity because we had people like Washington and Franklin and Jefferson working to ensure religious freedom for all. (Many of the Founding Fathers were, in fact, atheists or Deists; but really it doesn't matter; working for religious tolerance requires no particular religious belief or lack of it.)

 

[kingjoshi]

@Eran, how do you derive that he's name, Inqvisitor, is based upon, Inquisitor?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

@Eran, how do you derive that he's name, Inqvisitor, is based upon, Inquisitor?

Well, "u" as a letter does come from "v", which was replaced in many words when "u" was developed. Wasn't it?

Anyways, my comment that religious tolerance is an essential part of US history, and that pretty much by definition the religious views of those who established it don't matter, are still true. Many of the Founding Fathers were Christian, in one form or another. Many weren't. But they did share the belief that a separation of church and state would be a vital part of America's freedoms - and they were right.

 

[IglooDame]

@Eran, how do you derive that he's name, Inqvisitor, is based upon, Inquisitor?

Swap the V for the U, it was my first thought as well.

And seconded, regarding feeding this particular troll.

 

[kingjoshi]

good point

However, I think it's a cool name. The infamous inquisition is bad, but if he's for it, then it fits. And inquisition as a general term is good in philosophical terms, imo. And I read it as Inquiring Visitor. I like the play on words and it seems to fit his personality. Pretty cool.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

yeah, I guess that for me "inquisition" has negative connotations, just like the word "crusade", which I would never use in a positive connotation. But that's just me.

 

[Kayak]

yeah, I guess that for me "inquisition" has negative connotations, just like the word "crusade", which I would never use in a positive connotation. But that's just me.

even more OT I know, but: You really see "crusade" as an unqualified negative? Do you think of it as the counter weight to jihad?

 

[kingjoshi]

yeah, I guess that for me "inquisition" has negative connotations, just like the word "crusade", which I would never use in a positive connotation. But that's just me.

growing up in a Hindu househould, the swastika is a symbol for peace. You can see how Hitler used it but it still means peace for millions of people.

Inquisition is one thing, the Spanish Inquisition is another. Monty Pythons more imprinted on my mind then rest of Catholic history

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

@Kayak: No, because the original meaning of "jihad" was something quite different from its current use. Now, I know that many people now use the word "crusade" to mean the same thing as "jihad", ie a struggle against sin, or to do the work of God. But I could never use it that way because when I hear "crusade", I immediately think of things like "sacking Constantinople and killing European Jews".

Maybe I am just weird that way, though. All that history that I study and I never use words the way most people do these days.

 

[Kayak]

@Kayak: No, because the original meaning of "jihad" was something quite different from its current use. Now, I know that many people now use the word "crusade" to mean the same thing as "jihad", ie a struggle against sin, or to do the work of God. But I could never use it that way because when I hear "crusade", I immediately think of things like "sacking Constantinople and killing European Jews".

Maybe I am just weird that way, though. All that history that I study and I never use words the way most people do these days.

Hm. American history is full of the word crusade though. Crusades vs poverty, disease, crime, etc. Doesn't crusade really boil down to a rightous war?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Yes, that is probably true - a word can change its meaning through common usage - but I could never use it in a positive context just because it was originally used to describe something so bad.

 

[superisis]

another word that some people have bad connotations with:

cult.

which is wrong, cult is a positive word. The negative word you are looking for is sect. Always negative.

 

[Sidhe]

@Kayak: No, because the original meaning of "jihad" was something quite different from its current use. Now, I know that many people now use the word "crusade" to mean the same thing as "jihad", ie a struggle against sin, or to do the work of God. But I could never use it that way because when I hear "crusade", I immediately think of things like "sacking Constantinople and killing European Jews".

Maybe I am just weird that way, though. All that history that I study and I never use words the way most people do these days.

Sacking of Jerusalem in the crusades was far worse(practically every man woman and child was slaughtered)

Jihad literally means to struggle, and the term taken in context means to struggle against opression and came from the original persecution of Muslims under Mohammed, what the Quran advocates is of no relevance to the modern term "Jihad" as it is understood by the west, it translates as holy war because of Muslims - and I use that term extremely loosely - advocating the extreme from, in actuality the Quran saw war as an absolute last resort or an extreme of Jihad, only when all other methods had been tried and failed and only with the utmost reservation.

Crusade was a fight to stem the tide of Muslim influence in Europe at a time of conquest by the Islamics into Europe and a percieved threat from the Middle East, the motives were pure the execution was sickening, and an outright atrocity.

I just think that it is funny that Inqvisitor, while upholding the virtues of Catholicism (which is ok in its own right) as against the failings or lack of contributions of all other groups (not just historically false, but kind of intolerant), takes his username from one of the practices of the Catholic church that was most evil, and which even many Catholics abhor. The Inquisition? In my opinion, the US avoided such an atrocity because we had people like Washington and Franklin and Jefferson working to ensure religious freedom for all. (Many of the Founding Fathers were, in fact, atheists or Deists; but really it doesn't matter; working for religious tolerance requires no particular religious belief or lack of it.)

fear not the inqvisitors loose interpritation of history is not a common view, I think you'll find you can credit us with more intelligence than that.

Tolerance comes with knowledge, what inquisitor has is a one sided morasse of innacuracy and an unwillingness to look at both sides of the issues. This is not tolerance it is bigotry, and yes I use it far to often and yes mostly it's a technicality, but in this case it seems to me to be an "absolute" when judging the posts of Inqvisitor.

 

[Inqvisitor]

I just think that it is funny that Inqvisitor, while upholding the virtues of Catholicism (which is ok in its own right) as against the failings or lack of contributions of all other groups (not just historically false, but kind of intolerant), takes his username from one of the practices of the Catholic church that was most evil, and which even many Catholics abhor.

Any man who claims to be a Catholic and also claims to "abhor" the Holy Inquisition is an absolute liar. "One of the practices of the Church that was most evil?" All those evil things that evil Church did, like building civilization; creating peace, order, and unity across the Western world; assisting and defending the poor, sick, and starving; and guiding peoples' souls in the One True Faith...?

The very purpose of the Holy Roman and Universal Inquisition is to "uphold the virtues of Catholicism."

 

[Inqvisitor]

even more OT I know, but: You really see "crusade" as an unqualified negative? Do you think of it as the counter weight to jihad?

The Holy Crusades were defensive wars against foreign violent aggression but increasingly it seems so are the Islamic "jihads" in this age against a new threat.

 

[Kozmos]

Any man who claims to be a Catholic and also claims to "abhor" the Holy Inquisition is an absolute liar. "One of the practices of the Church that was most evil?" All those evil things that evil Church did, like building civilization; creating peace, order, and unity across the Western world; assisting and defending the poor, sick, and starving; and guiding peoples' souls in the One True Faith...?

The very purpose of the Holy Roman and Universal Inquisition is to "uphold the virtues of Catholicism."

PARENTS is your kid a Torch Wielding Fanatic?Here are the most often signs...

 

[superisis]

Any man who claims to be a Catholic and also claims to "abhor" the Holy Inquisition is an absolute liar. "One of the practices of the Church that was most evil?" All those evil things that evil Church did, like building civilization; creating peace, order, and unity across the Western world; assisting and defending the poor, sick, and starving; and guiding peoples' souls in the One True Faith...?

The very purpose of the Holy Roman and Universal Inquisition is to "uphold the virtues of Catholicism."

do you know what comes to mind?

This:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=107598

 

[Whomp]

All I can say is "the troll" has simply reconfirmed all that I feel that I find great about this country and its cultural diversity.

Thank goodness for jazz, blues, rock n roll and baseball too.

 

[CartesianFart]

I guess the only word for America is "Liberty",and i don't care for the cynics in what their say into this.Probably because of their inability to understand the concept.