What did I just read? Ayn Rand's Philosophy.

[Traitorfish]

Native American philosophy is non-existent? Upon what exactly are you basing that supposition?

Well, put it this way: what colour are they?

 

[holy king]

Philosophy must be written into books by old bearded men, that's the only true European way.

wait, apparently she didnt read those either.

 

[Arakhor]

Well, put it this way: what colour are they?

Slightly reddish. I would ask "why?", but I have a suspicion that you're leading up to a charge of racism.

 

[Traitorfish]

I wouldn't assume any explicit racism on Rand's part, but I think that there's certainly an unrehabilitated European exceptionalism at play, the sort of thinking in which even the "civilised" non-Europeans aren't capable of much more than cobbling together a lot of "Confucius says" fortune cookies. It's the same thoughtlessness that leads to this kind of silliness, and that fancies itself progressive.

 

[Leoreth]

Will this suffice?

How It Is
The Native American Philosophy of V. F. Cordova
By V. F. Cordova; Kathleen Dean Moore; Kurt Peters; Ted Jojola; Amber Lacy
http://www.uapress.arizona.edu/Books/bid1863.htm

But Mrs. Cordova was only able to do this after generations of Europeans converted her people to reason.

wait, apparently she didnt read those either.

It's not necessary to read them, you only have to know they're there and say "Aristotelian philosophy" a lot.

 

[JollyRoger]

Native American philosophy is non-existent? Upon what exactly are you basing that supposition?

Reading every word that Ayn Rand has written.

 

[Murky]

But Mrs. Cordova was only able to do this after generations of Europeans converted her people to reason.

But she was a Native American Philosopher nonetheless. I'd follow her philosophy sooner than Ayn Rand's.

 

[Ayn Rand]

But she was a Native American Philosopher nonetheless. I'd follow her philosophy sooner than Ayn Rand's.

You choose your philosophers based on race?

 

[Angst]

You choose your philosophers based on race?

What? When did he say that? I assume it's based on validity.

 

[Murky]

You choose your philosophers based on race?

No. I choose based on the merits of their ideas. Rand's basic idea is to serve only yourself is the highest and most moral choice you can make. Which I think is absurd. Native American Philosophy is centered around doing what is good for the whole tribe. They also care more about protecting the environment than Rand's followers typically do.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Plus Aztec Philosophy actually dealt with serious questions about the nature of reality. Since it seems they have a superior philosophy, you've lost your right to land ownership.

 

[Traitorfish]

No. I choose based on the merits of their ideas. Rand's basic idea is to serve only yourself is the highest and most moral choice you can make. Which I think is absurd. Native American Philosophy is centered around doing what is good for the whole tribe.

And funnily enough, they managed to practice this tyrannical collectivism with the bare minimum of coercive institutions, while Rand's rugged individualism requires an entire state apparatus even to keep itself ticking over. Weird, huh?

 

[IdiotsOpposite]

I wouldn't assume any explicit racism on Rand's part, but I think that there's certainly an unrehabilitated European exceptionalism at play, the sort of thinking in which even the "civilised" non-Europeans aren't capable of much more than cobbling together a lot of "Confucius says" fortune cookies. It's the same thoughtlessness that leads to this kind of silliness, and that fancies itself progressive.

That chart is... what? Just ignore China, India, Arabia, what? That's gotta be the dumbest thing I've ever seen!

 

[Traitorfish]

And don't you love how "scientific advancement" doesn't actually appear to measure anything at all?

 

[Tee Kay]

Ironically, it fails as a scientific graph on multiple levels.

 

[warpus]

What I make of Rand's philosophy is this:

"Assuming that everyone was awesome, everything would be awesome if everyone was selfish"

But everyone is not awesome so her philosophy fails miserably and shouldn't be used as a basis for any society until we are morally superior robots playing chess in robotic underwear

 

[Glassmage]

I like it! Better than the commie socialist theories that never worked.

 

[sophie]

I like it! Better than the commie socialist theories that never worked.

...how?

 

[Ailedhoo]

I like it! Better than the commie socialist theories that never worked.

So not only you place all socialists under one brush, you like objectivism?

Objectivism is a ideology that encourages selfishness and greed. Rand did not know the important of collective structures which are needed to allow the efficiencies that would allow education, healthcare and other areas to gain better workings.

Socialism is an ideology that notes that the person benefits if all the people benefits. Communism is the... radical taking of this theory to the ultimate notion. I myself am not a communist. As a liberal socialist I believe the individual requires the collective to function. I am about the setting of a collective of individuals, not individual collectives or nests of selfishness that spell in despair.

All in all: you cannot function without others. Saying you can stand by yourself without anyone is... a statement of the mythical.

 

[Angst]

But Ailedhoo, didn't you know? Objectivism ensures the individual freedom.