What do you think of Lenin?

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Originally posted by allhailIndia
I would say that Lenin gave the peasants of Russia a chance to rise from their misery under the tsars, although this was of course perverted by later rulers, who tried to rival the tsars n wealth and opulence, not least of all in cruelty. I would say he was a good leader though not a great one.

I picked this post, because it perfectly illustrates that people have no clue who or what Lenin was.

Lenin belived in ORGANIZED TERROR OF THE MASSES, that's what HE called it, and the above white-wash is what he would call the words of a "useful idiot", people who refuse to see the truth, and cover it up for ideolgical reasons.

He was not Communist, as layed out by Marx and Engels, he belived only an educated elite could govern the idiot peasents, and he cared little for their well being, the STAYE was all that mattered.

Like all communists, the rights of man is a concept to be hated and shuned, as it runs counter to the Communist ideal.

Lenin was also a mass killer, Russia's civil war is filled with murder, as was the nation in the aftermath.

There is NOTHING good or praiseworthy in Lenin, he was a stonecold murderer, an elitest who thrived on terror, and cared only for those he considered useful to him in his attempt to sieze control of Russia, all others to be liquidated in the name of the good of the state.

 

[Ukas]

Good point, Lenin was not a communist. In those days there were real Communists and if they've had the power USSR would probably have been a better place. Or then it would have fallen back to the Whites, who probably would've been evenly ruthless and paranoid when dealing with the people.

As his good act, communists here back in the 70's claimed that Lenin gave us the independence. Sure, but he expected the Finns would have joined to international revolution by themselves. This was tried in the civil war of 1918, the Whites won and retaliated. Next major event between the two countries was when the Soviets tried to take Finland back in the Winter War. So that much of their goodwill. Nevertheless the revolt made the right wing government to pay more attention to the conditions of the people - and result made our country better and stronger.

Socialism, as long as it's democratic or better a natural part of a democracy, I believe is a good thing. I don't have to admire dictators like Lenin because I like the idea.

 

[Furry Spatula]

marshal zhukov

I beg to differ. Without a state, who would be collecting and redistributing the resources? And also, who would enforce it to make sure nobody skims off of the share they are supposed to pass on? If what you say is true, then Communism is nothing more that Utopianism from a childish poorly thought out idea that is impossible to impliment. With no sate who ever has the biggest gun rules. People will figure that out soon enough. The idea that there is no state assumes that nobody will try to keep a little extra for themselves. And with a state to make sure that people do pay their dues. There is no motivation to work hard. Look at Cuba, talk with some people who visited there recently. Engineers work as porters in hotels b/c they get tip money. It pays better to be a porter than a scientist in Cuba.

And also, once someone tries to enforce something in your view of communism they become the state as they are applying rules to someone.

Given your explanation. Communism can never exist.

 

[luiz]

Furry Spatula said it all

 

[Indrius]

Originally posted by luiz
@Indrius: True, I never worked in a mine. But Ive seen children starving, and Ive seen leftist politicians using their misery to get elected and dont doing *&@#! to solve the problem.

You haven't lived in USSR so you don't know anything about that. There weren't any childred labor, famine or unemployment in USSR. You may believe me or you may not, but I lived there. So your socialDEMOCRACY example is worthless here.

 

[Indrius]

Originally posted by luiz
@zhukov
We can blame him for killing MILLIONS of peasants who refused to give away ALL of their production to the state. There is a document in wich Lenin orders the execution of aprox. 30,000 peasants. If that doesnt qualify him as en evil dictator then I dont know what does.

It was Stalin, who made such orders for his terror aparatus. Lenin didn't order to kill peasants. He even told that Stalin shouldn't be appointed as the ruler of USSR, he knew that Stalin was mad psycho.

Anyway, learn some history.

 

[addiv]

@Indrius: Just because someone hasn't lived in a country doesn't mean he can know nothing about it. And Lenin WAS a mass murderer, I could give you lots of references to books or articles from respected historians in which is stated that Lenin is responsible for the deaths of thousands of people.

 

[Magnus]

Lenin definitely gave the cheka broad powers and they killed many opponents with his 'blessing' Stalin was far worse, but Lenin created the apparatus that would eventually give Stalin the power to do the horrors he would eventually commit. Eventually Lenin began to realize the dangers that Stalin would possess if unchecked, but it was too late.

 

[marshal zhukov]

Originally posted by Furry Spatula
marshal zhukov

I beg to differ. Without a state, who would be collecting and redistributing the resources? And also, who would enforce it to make sure nobody skims off of the share they are supposed to pass on? If what you say is true, then Communism is nothing more that Utopianism from a childish poorly thought out idea that is impossible to impliment. With no sate who ever has the biggest gun rules. People will figure that out soon enough. The idea that there is no state assumes that nobody will try to keep a little extra for themselves. And with a state to make sure that people do pay their dues. There is no motivation to work hard. Look at Cuba, talk with some people who visited there recently. Engineers work as porters in hotels b/c they get tip money. It pays better to be a porter than a scientist in Cuba.

And also, once someone tries to enforce something in your view of communism they become the state as they are applying rules to someone.

Given your explanation. Communism can never exist.

Exactly. I totally agree with you.
Communism is the dumbest idea ever conceived by a human being.
Communism is an utopia, it is so unworkable that no Socialist nation has ever tried to put the idea into practice. Not even the Soviets followed through with the idea.
Socialism was supposed to be an intermediate fase to the Communist revolution, it was never meant to be a system to run a economy.
It amazing to see how many people believed blindly in the idea that Communism is a workable system, worst yet, it amazing to see how many believed that it was the solution for flaws of Capitalism.
Capitalism is by far superior to any system ever created by mankind, of course it is not perfect, it has its flaws.

 

[Furry Spatula]

ok whew, i thought you were one of "those" people.

 

[SKILORD]

Originally posted by Magnus
Lenin definitely gave the cheka broad powers and they killed many opponents with his 'blessing' Stalin was far worse, but Lenin created the apparatus that would eventually give Stalin the power to do the horrors he would eventually commit. Eventually Lenin began to realize the dangers that Stalin would possess if unchecked, but it was too late.

Ahhhh Bullsh*t.

Read this Book

This man has a bone to pick with you.

And in Stalin's defense; he was a brutal totalitarian. This is a good defense because he was a Communist, and a dictator, and he should be admired, among dictators, because he managed to do the 'ruthless dictator' thing better than most.

 

[SKILORD]

Originally posted by Magnus
Lenin definitely gave the cheka broad powers and they killed many opponents with his 'blessing' Stalin was far worse, but Lenin created the apparatus that would eventually give Stalin the power to do the horrors he would eventually commit. Eventually Lenin began to realize the dangers that Stalin would possess if unchecked, but it was too late.

Ahhhh Bullsh*t.

Read this Book

This man has a bone to pick with you.

And in Stalin's defense; he was a brutal totalitarian. This is a good defense because he was a Communist, and a dictator, and he should be admired, among dictators, because he managed to do the 'ruthless dictator' thing better than most.

 

[Godwynn]

I wish he never existed, but i'm American, so i'm gonna say that

 

[apenpaap]

I would like to know what the rest of the world thinks of him, specially the europeans, because according to the local news most of them are reds

I wish it were true ... Though Europe certainly seems more left then America, we got people like Berlusconi, Sarkozy and Merkel...

 

[Tee Kay]

Five years...

That's not the record though. I remember someone did revive a seven years old thread.

 

[scy12]

Lenin shows how dangerous ideology becomes when people start to believe so much in said ideology that they forget the reality.

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

Lenin, is a difficult man to discuss...

On one side, consider the time... Russia just suffered a terrible defeat in the First World War, then the country was thrown into a bloody Civil War, and we all know how much that just bumps the economy down... I'm not saying this excused him but if your gonna honestly form an opinion on Lenin, look at the world around him.

I find him an important figure, I don't praise him as most lefts do but I respect him and believe he cared for the country.

 

[EnlightenmentHK]

When you get right down to it, Lenin wasn't much different than any other brutal dictator. In fact, given his fanatical devotion to ideology, he was probably worse than most. Almost his every move while in power was some variation of 'repress and/or consolidate power'.

He created a secret police to crush dissent. Violently silenced all criticism and monopolized and propagandized the press. Stole food and grain from the peasants he was supposedly there to protect. Made examples of everyone, rich and poor, bourgeois and peasant, in an effort to spread his 'Red Terror' everywhere. Broke up and repressed all attempts at grass roots worker or peasant organization. He condemned imperialists, yet used military force to subdue all the newly independent states around Russia. He filled labor camps on a scale that not even the Czars had ever attempted. And he didn't regret this crap or call it a necessary evil. He openly celebrated and encouraged slaughter and butchery.

He was an imperialist. An authoritarian. A butcher. And a thug. I'm hard pressed to find anything positive that he actually did for Russia. Intentions don't count. He may have had some quaint notions of empowering the people, yet he did everything within his power to crush them. Just because he clothed his power grab in ideology and likely believed that ideology doesn't make him any different or any better than the Czars. In fact, he was probably worse.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

He was a tyrant and nothing excuses that. Unfortunately any further insight is generally made absurd by ideological nonsense, either by the left that wants to imagine a communist paradise before Stalin, or by the right that seeks to paint Stalin as the communist mainstream. If you think Lenin was comparable to Stalin, or that Lenin's tyranny was in any way excusable, you've been made blind by your ideology, simple as that.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

He had one badass beard, and he knew how to wear a three-piecer.