What do you think of the quality of OT discussion today?

[Traitorfish]

Yeah, I remember that one Light Cleric - I was spectating too up to that point. The problem there was that people were so concerned with answering TF's questions that they weren't making a positive case of their own. I like it when people lay out their vision and attempt to take me with them, rather than fighting fires that TF starts with his questions. He's very good at it; they're good questions that deserve answers. But those answers ought to be framed within a holistic vision for (in this case) employment laws. To me it doesn't really matter if the posts are long or short, as long as they have the goal in sight at all times, and everything they're saying is working towards something really important.

That's fair.

The special little groups behind the scenes, etc... sometimes it's been blatantly out in the open.

Well, what groups, and whose in them? I understand that there's a certain reluctance to name names because that risks turning general discussion into personal accusations, but at some point these complaints about cliquishness are going to have to start being more specific, else it starts to sound like paranoia

 

[kochman]

For what it's worth, TF, I don't think you're a party to it.
Names are irrelevant, as well. I haven't seen several of them recently anyway.

 

[Gori the Grey]

And Borachio asked us not to name names. And this thread will remain at the slightly more productive level it's been at, I think, if we don't name names. Besides, we all know who we're talking about.

 

[Traitorfish]

If Borachio asked us not to name names, then fair enough.

But I honestly don't know who we're talking about.

 

[Phrossack]

I suspect the list of clique members and dogpilers varies a little from person to person, but has a few common members. I could PM the curious if they want.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

What do you think of the quality of OT discussion today?

The quality is alright. What I miss is a combination of quantity and variety. People kind of step on each others toes these days.

And how do you think it might be improved?

I don't really worry about that, to be honest. Things run their course. Sure posters can try to be more enrichung to the community. That should be done in its own right if it is done. Because for one it won't work otherwise and for another there is no guarantee that it will have much of an effect on more participation.
I find it a bit baffling though why all those Civ5-posters etcetera avoid OT like the plague. Does OT seem so obviously sectarian? Or is it just normal that people don't care about the OT section?

How do you rate your own style of posting?

Not very good. My posts lack effort in one way or another or they lack the holistic approach Mise talked about. I used to be much more willing to read through threads.

What, without directly criticising anyone, would you like to see less of?

Dunno (speaking of effort )

What would you like to see more of?

Posters

Would you prefer I hadn't started this thread?

No, I don't see why.

 

[Zack]

If Borachio asked us not to name names, then fair enough.

But I honestly don't know who we're talking about.

I think people are clearly referring to the so-called "fiftychat mafia". It's also just as clear that these people have never actually been to fiftychat.

 

[kochman]

It's also clear you have no idea what I am personally talking about, as I have no idea (nor interest) in what the 50chat mafia is.

 

[Phrossack]

It's also clear you have no idea what I am personally talking about, as I have no idea (nor interest) in what the 50chat mafia is.

I've never heard of it either.

 

[Zack]

It's also clear you have no idea what I am personally talking about, as I have no idea (nor interest) in what the 50chat mafia is.

It's the only thing I can think of that even remotely resembles a clique, so I'm not sure what else you could be referring to.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Naturally - or they belonged to that mafia as well :O

I personally did actually not think of such a mafia, ever. But now that you mention it, it offers intriguing explanatory power of what is going on in OT.
Basically OT had been taken over by the so-called fifty chat mafia. But over time, the presence of this mafia faded away and what was left was an empty shell... Just an idea.

 

[JollyRoger]

I wish the damned clique would stop dogpiling me.

 

[Zack]

Naturally - or they belonged to that mafia as well :O

I personally did actually not think of such a mafia, ever. But now that you mention it, it offers intriguing explanatory power of what is going on in OT.
Basically OT had been taken over by the so-called fifty chat mafia. But over time, the presence of this mafia faded away and what was left was an empty shell... Just an idea.

No, it's just a chatroom. At least in the past, people tried to make it out as something more, like one of the "cliques" that people in this thread keep going on about.

EDIT: To be clear, AFAIK pretty much anyone is welcome in fiftychat.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

It seems only natural to me that a very ordinary chatroom will have the very ordinary effect of structuring very ordinarily ordinary social relations. I.e. - cliques. Another ordinary effect is that this introduces a foreign element to the social dynaimcs of OT. That is an element which is reproduced by social relations which precede the social relations of OT. And I find it intriguing what effect this may have.

I am not really trying to make a scapegoat of fifty chat, relax I am just brianstorming

 

[Gori the Grey]

Anyway, I think the solution is starting to emerge. I'm starting to get the sense that there's a group of people that, whatever they think about this or that issue, also simply care about the quality of discussion on this site. And I get the sense that that group is gathering its strength to start fighting back against the things here that militate against thoughtful discussion: dogpiling, caustic criticism from people who become evasive when its time for their own positions be pinned down, etc. It will only be so successful; this is an internet discussion forum, after all. But if this is not already a golden age for the site, as Hygro feels, I think we may be moving in a direction where more of more threads are actually fruitful.

 

[JollyRoger]

I quit fiftychat when they lost the sponsorship from George Soros and thus stopped paying per post for dogpiling.

 

[Light Cleric]

The fiftychat people in general have been more affable than the general population so yeah, it's definitely not them we're talking about. I've never been in there either so I'm not gonna judge.

 

[JollyRoger]

Without naming names, it seems some here are guilty of the same type of activity they are complaining about in this thread.

 

[Tarquelne]

I think you're just projecting.

 

[JollyRoger]

Why do you think I'm not naming names?