Keep in mind that even the link between true miracles and the existence of a god is not iron-clad.
What if god does not know of you
- Thread starter Kyriakos
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Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
Here you go: Numerous miracles.You funny man.
Okay, let's see the evidence
Thorgalaeg
Deity
How many should we consider numerous btw? 5, 10, 20, 30, 50 miracles? Today a saint needs 2 miracles in his curriculum IIRC. So God may need 50 miracles at least!
classical_hero
In whom I trust
I am wondering what kind of evidence would be required to show that God knows you and cares for you?
JohannaK
Heroically Clueless
A signed confession would be a great step.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
What did the trick for you?
Just noting that (by now) i see it as inevitable to accept the thread being somewhat derailed to a general question about god existing or not.
I just ask that as long as it goes on it is kept in the same RD standard so as to avoid attacks happening
In regards to god and the old testament, his main phrase is "A wicked (πονηρά
generation seeks a sign (ie a miracle), but it shall not be given it (or alternatively it will only be given the miracle of Jonah the prophet etc)"
I just ask that as long as it goes on it is kept in the same RD standard so as to avoid attacks happening
In regards to god and the old testament, his main phrase is "A wicked (πονηρά
generation seeks a sign (ie a miracle), but it shall not be given it (or alternatively it will only be given the miracle of Jonah the prophet etc)" 
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
The exact same evidence I'd request if it was claimed that the cute girl in the office knows who I am and cares about me.
Meaning, first I'd actually need to see that she actually exists. Only then can we begin to worry about proving the "does she like me?" part.
What are you, an unbeliever?
Just go to the office and be cut to pieces by the robotic demon they prepared for you. If they were kind enough they might have added a bit of lipstick over its iron maw.
Ziggy Stardust
Absolutely Sane
CH, if your question was geniune, answering this one may create understanding.
But what would be that barrier made from? The only barrier I can see is that one of subconscience. When that is removed from your mind it has free access to higher ranges of consciousness. The more you can become conscious in mind the further your vision reaches potentially allowing you to go beyond mental consciousness.
If you view reason as light of sorts then why not let that light shine on unconscious? In fact thats what is actually happening since thats the nature of this light. True, it may not have the capacity to transform the unconscious but its laying stone to edifice for that very purpose.
I think, the more you develop mental consciousness (e.g. through logic) the more you are laying grip on the stuff of subconscious since these are both interconected realms. Its obvious that progress gained through mind can be quite uncertain and doubtful with potential great dangers for that is its nature and thats why some people try to open up to some higher light to efficiate the work that has to be innevitably done.
I largely agree with you, but one should keep in mind that it seems rather very dangerous for most (if not outright all) people to deeply examine their own mental world beyond some parts of it they have become (consciously or not consciously) familiar with. I mean, to use a parallelism (which is not exact, of course) you can expect a person living in a house to be fairly confident about his environment since he sees it day in day out. If one night he opens the door to his bedroom and there is met not with the balcony door opposing him, or some wall or what was there, but a gaping chasm to other worlds, well he is very likely to stop feeling so familiar with his setting cause it no longer would exist as he thought it did.
Of course one can theorise that in the longer run he might even be able to account for this change, and examine the house in a way which can explain to some degree the periodic opening of hell in its edge
But practically very few people are expected to do this. Most (of the ones we know of, anyway) pretty much self-destructed. The mental world indeed seems to be pretty much endless, but consciousness within it does not seem to be able to reach quite to such lengths. I mean one can (in theory) be examining 1 million distinct thoughts in one minute. Ok. That only means that below his consciousness, even of such a vast calibre, there are mechanisms billions of times more refined and complicated, just so that they can enable this conscious level to him.
I think you can encounter laws in mental world simmilarly you do in the physical. Anything apparently haphazard is part of some mechanism and process. There is no other way but become familiar with the yet unmaped and become masters of the mental world just like we did to a large extent with the outer physical world in spite of its particular dangers.I largely agree with you, but one should keep in mind that it seems rather very dangerous for most (if not outright all) people to deeply examine their own mental world beyond some parts of it they have become (consciously or not consciously) familiar with. I mean, to use a parallelism (which is not exact, of course) you can expect a person living in a house to be fairly confident about his environment since he sees it day in day out. If one night he opens the door to his bedroom and there is met not with the balcony door opposing him, or some wall or what was there, but a gaping chasm to other worlds, well he is very likely to stop feeling so familiar with his setting cause it no longer would exist as he thought it did.
I agree that at present many may not be "expected" to explore the limits and details of mental worlds but thats how it works in every field. First there are some extremely talented individuals who with immnense effort make couple of first baby steps followed by group of pioneers who make the field open to the rest of the humanity and sometimes genius comes along who can pierce far into the new discovery and even usher new age creating the bridge between the new and old world.Of course one can theorise that in the longer run he might even be able to account for this change, and examine the house in a way which can explain to some degree the periodic opening of hell in its edge
The mental world indeed seems to be pretty much endless, but consciousness within it does not seem to be able to reach quite to such lengths. I mean one can (in theory) be examining 1 million distinct thoughts in one minute. Ok. That only means that below his consciousness, even of such a vast calibre, there are mechanisms billions of times more refined and complicated, just so that they can enable this conscious level to him.
I think what man could be looking for in any possible new mental vistas wouldnt be computer like capacity of countless mental operations but rather qualitative difference when seeing and knowing are coming closer together while shortening the deductive process in between.
I agree. But although i always want to think positively, i really doubt that society by and large is moving to such a direction. Which is very bad, cause it has to be expected that if people actually realised that their own mental world is the most interesting phenomenon they could ever hope to have a good position to study, i have to suspect that they would stop caring about the petty things which lead us all to pain and conflicts.
But it is dangerous to travel the uncharted waters of the inner ocean of the mind. As a writer i do this, and did so more in the past. I am very introverted anyway. And indeed, as you said (and i alluded to) one can form understandings of his mental world even after consciousness expands in such manners. But most people (and i can see why) are probably way too frightened of losing just about the only thing they considered as familiar, which was their own consciousness. So a sort of moderation has to be found, but again there are countless different cases for this sort of examination of one's mental world so we cannot really discuss it in a way which would be not very theoretical.
But it is dangerous to travel the uncharted waters of the inner ocean of the mind. As a writer i do this, and did so more in the past. I am very introverted anyway. And indeed, as you said (and i alluded to) one can form understandings of his mental world even after consciousness expands in such manners. But most people (and i can see why) are probably way too frightened of losing just about the only thing they considered as familiar, which was their own consciousness. So a sort of moderation has to be found, but again there are countless different cases for this sort of examination of one's mental world so we cannot really discuss it in a way which would be not very theoretical.
timtofly
One Day
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- Sep 28, 2009
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There is also the fallacy that you are your memories. IMO, you are not. You cannot control what goes into the memory banks, but you can control who you are. The memories are just place holders of your experiences. Even one can be deceived about one's own memories, how is an outsider going to figure out the proper interpretation of them? I think that one can study their inner self and even take over certain unconscious controls, but there is the danger of getting lost internally and not living externally properly. One cannot neglect the one for the other. It may be hard to do both at the same time as they generally cannot be done at the same time.
Berzerker
Deity
If god exists we're better off if he isn't playing an active and complicit role given our track record, but if god is "aloof" we're still a product of his creation so we're screwed either way
isn't life strange?
isn't life strange?
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
Dont worry Formaldehyde
Republicans will attack Jesus as being too "Liberal" and "socialist". Then Jesus will go old testament on them.
Berzerker
Deity
God punishes children for the sins of their fathers
This is who I'm supposed to worship? I'd rather have no god...
How about god who as an alpha and omega of everything views socalled sins and evil as a lesser truth developing through his self-created game into greater perfection?
What you can view as a records of folly and sufering is just another form of Gods transcendental delight in action.
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