The Mongols did however have a profound impact on the history of the entire old World. If we're talking about significance I could name countless different peoples who had a similar impact on the world as the Iroquois, but just don't happen to have been a people in a region that give them a high exposure to the creators and a large market for the game.
What is your opinion on Venice possibly being included as a civ?
- Thread starter Botswana
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The Mongols did however have a profound impact on the history of the entire old World. If we're talking about significance I could name countless different peoples who had a similar impact on the world as the Iroquois, but just don't happen to have been a people in a region that give them a high exposure to the creators and a large market for the game.
Gucumatz
JS, secretly Rod Serling
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Although certainly, if I were to have my option for Native American civs, they would come from much further south in general 
. The Pueblo, more Mesoamerican civs, more Andean Civs, etc. who had significant Pre-Colombian empires of their own right
. The Pueblo, more Mesoamerican civs, more Andean Civs, etc. who had significant Pre-Colombian empires of their own right
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
Even though I am very much one of the anti-Eurocentrism people, I personally don't mind Venice, especially if they have Enrico Dandolo. To be honest, having only three European civs in a civ expansion is already a step up from the previous Civs and much better than I expected after G&K.
While I personally would have preferred a full-blown Italy, or another European power such as Hungary, instead of Venice, I'm sure Venice will be quite fun. I actually think it was a decent compromise between having an Italy blob and not having Italy at all in-game, though some may disagree.
While I personally would have preferred a full-blown Italy, or another European power such as Hungary, instead of Venice, I'm sure Venice will be quite fun. I actually think it was a decent compromise between having an Italy blob and not having Italy at all in-game, though some may disagree.
I would have no problem with Venice.
But why them over Genoa, or any other of the merchant republics of Italy?
Moreover, why them when we have a lot of Europe represented and not much of the Americas (no Canada, no Mexico, no Argentina, no Cherokee, no Lakota, no Toltec, no Pueblo, no Cuba, no Jamaica, no Nicaragua or Belize or Costa Rica or Panama, and so on)?
Needless to say, I answered Good choice, but I would have preferred another civ. As I see it, the Americas are quite under-represented, along with modern Africa (we get Morocco now and the Zulus, which helps, but other than that we have only Ethiopia and Egypt, with Egypt being represented entirely by its ancient heritage).
I'll add as a sort of post-script, though, that Brazil, Morocco, the Zulu, and Indonesia are all great additions, given that they were added to fairly under-represented areas. I have to say, I've been a little bit pleasantly surprised that BNW didn't just add more to Europe and continental Asia (Poland, Portugal, and 1 other unknown civ were all that were added to Europe).
edit:
You beat me to it by about 6 minutes. Yes, I very much appreciated that we didn't see another 6 or 7 European civs get tossed at us.
But why them over Genoa, or any other of the merchant republics of Italy?
Moreover, why them when we have a lot of Europe represented and not much of the Americas (no Canada, no Mexico, no Argentina, no Cherokee, no Lakota, no Toltec, no Pueblo, no Cuba, no Jamaica, no Nicaragua or Belize or Costa Rica or Panama, and so on)?
Needless to say, I answered Good choice, but I would have preferred another civ. As I see it, the Americas are quite under-represented, along with modern Africa (we get Morocco now and the Zulus, which helps, but other than that we have only Ethiopia and Egypt, with Egypt being represented entirely by its ancient heritage).
I'll add as a sort of post-script, though, that Brazil, Morocco, the Zulu, and Indonesia are all great additions, given that they were added to fairly under-represented areas. I have to say, I've been a little bit pleasantly surprised that BNW didn't just add more to Europe and continental Asia (Poland, Portugal, and 1 other unknown civ were all that were added to Europe).
edit:
You beat me to it by about 6 minutes. Yes, I very much appreciated that we didn't see another 6 or 7 European civs get tossed at us.
Although certainly, if I were to have my option for Native American civs, they would come from much further south in general
Bang on the money!
Or Canada.
Canada, like Australia, is a terrible choice. That said, Venice is not much better.
I was trying to think of a way to say it nicely.
Why would Canada be a bad choice? It's like, more than half of North America.
Moraiwe
Warlord
Because size doesn't equal importance. Am stunned that people don't realise this.
By the same token being Colonial doesn't mean unimportant either and yet we have only 2 of those (USA & Brazil). That group of countries is probably underrepresented given their current power. Australia, Canada, South Africa, Mexico, Argentina, Gran Columbia, West Indies (I know it's a blob but at least they do have links unlike most blobs) as well as roughies like Haiti and Cuba all offer possibly interesting design elements, leaders and more modern uniques than we normally see.
Moraiwe
Warlord
Edit: in response to cuso210's question:
Yes they have. Many people like it. Many people don't. See the Speculation Italy/Papal States/Venice thread.
Yes they have. Many people like it. Many people don't. See the Speculation Italy/Papal States/Venice thread.
Arachnofiend
Perturbed Pugilist
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Most of the cities that would be in an Italian blob civ have been shown to still be city-states in BNW. Venice, however, is no longer a CS.
Oh, well, I thought I was an inovator
It's a shame, really. The thing is, I don't think Venice would be a good choice, not because I think it is historical unimportant, but because it represents a very tiny group of people and culture. As I said, maybe if all the important Italian city states are in one civ, that could represent renaissance Italy, but just Venice? I just feel it's to tiny to be a full civ.
Arachnofiend
Perturbed Pugilist
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A Renaissance Italian Blob would basically just play as a Florentine civ with some more cities. So it doesn't bother me either way. Lorenzo would be almost as cool of a leaderhead as Enrico, though.
Probably not a CS - remember probably. Menzies analysis indicates it's been replaced, we have yet to see it and the evidence is strong it's been replaced but we cant say it isn't a CS. It's 99% certain it isn't and we have plenty of evidence to back that but if they decided to change it's colors in some design change then all bets are off - it's unlikely but we cant say it isn't a CS because we simply dont have that information. We should be careful to avoid absolutes if there is any possibility we are incorrect.
Moraiwe
Warlord
And you've just highlighted what, for me, is one of the great reasons for including Venice. It was tiny(compared to many other empires) but it became powerful despite that. I see it as a real world example of a 'tall civ'.
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