What is your opinion on Venice possibly being included as a civ?

[Menzies]

Italy without Rome isn't Italy. If you want something similar, the kingdom of Savoy with Turin as capital.

There was a Kingdom of Italy before it had Rome. In fact, the Kingdom of Italy captured Rome from the Papal States.

 

[Kruppe]

There was a Kingdom of Italy before it had Rome. In fact, the Kingdom of Italy captured Rome from the Papal States.

Yes, for how many years? Nine? Wow

 

[Menzies]

Yes, for how many years? Nine? Wow

It was Italy though, falsifying your statement. 9 years is a lot longer than the existence of other suggestions as well.

That said, I still don't like the idea of Italy being in the game, but that's another debate all together. Good thing it won't be though.

 

[sukritact]

Wow, looks like I'm late to the party!

I'm thrilled they decided to go for Venice; just as happy as I would be if Italy were in!

I can still mod Tuscany in anyway

 

[Menzies]

Wow, looks like I'm late to the party!

I'm thrilled they decided to go for Venice; just as happy as I would be if Italy were in!

I can still mod Tuscany in anyway

I don't think they've officially announced it as of yet.

 

[Kruppe]

It was Italy though, falsifying your statement. 9 years is a lot longer than the existence of other suggestions as well.

That said, I still don't like the idea of Italy being in the game, but that's another debate all together. Good thing it won't be though.

At this point depends on what you mean as Italy. Italy was well two thousand years ago and the first Kingdom of Italy (understood as a state that controls the entire Italian peninsula) was the latin.

 

[Gucumatz]

So they had been one of the top tirbes. Woohoo!
Do you know how poor is that in European standards? Or in Middle Eastern standards? Or in South Asian standards?
I can make the same points for Harappan culture, or ancient Turkic tribes, or ancient Germanic tribes, not to mention Etruscans, Arameans, Scythians and many more Old World peoples who are not considered significant at all, and it would look ridiculous adding them to the game, but actually did much more than the Iroquois.

My point is that you all are so busy fighting the Euro-centrism that you don't notice how Native Tribes Centric you are.
There are really many great civilizations outside of Europe. Why adding more American tribes?


Another Mesoamerican? What would it be? Olmec?
That area is well represented, even better than Europe.

2 Mesoamerican civs? Hardly better represented than Europe lol Lets put it this way, Central America is large landmass wise comparative to a continent like Europe(bigger on definitions of extents). For Mesoamerica there are several major empires the Toltec [The Persians of the New World], Teotihuacan [The Assyrians of the New World], the Zapotecs [The Hittites of the new World], the Olmec comparatively can be said to be
similar to the Sumerians of the Old World

That's ignoring the great South American Empires too. The 3 hundred year war between the Huari and Tiwanaku empires and subsequent "cold war", that shaped centuries of history. The Chachapoya who controlled trade between South America and the rest of the world, controlling the gateway between the Amazons, the Panama Isthmus, and with substantial proof that they traded even with Polynesian islands [As seen by various Pacific plants in the tombs of royals], and various other South American civs that offer tons in fascinating gameplay
=============

This IS a US-Centric game Absolution no matter how much you hate it (which seems an awful lot). It means we will get an America-esique focus, so when I point out what the Iroquois did, yes it did make them more significant than many other tribes here in the US. It certainly didn't make them people stuck in the mud as you and others have said

We have had 4 different civs from Mesopotamia. Comparatively we only have 2 from Mesoamerica which is nearly as big as Europe. And only 1 from the west of South America. Not that I expect either of course, partly because of Euro-Centrism and partly because many of these civs are less known in the US. From gameplay perspectives they can do plenty with other civs too even possibly lesser ones like the Sioux if they do include them.

 

[poom3619]

If common knowledge was the main reasons to add civilizations it would be 24 European civilizations + America + China + Egypt.

If that's common knowledge (that have no Japan or India, seriously?) then I suggest playing any game that's represent Medieval Europe. Too bad it have no China and America.

So they had been one of the top tirbes. Woohoo!
Do you know how poor is that in European standards? Or in Middle Eastern standards? Or in South Asian standards?
I can make the same points for Harappan culture, or ancient Turkic tribes, or ancient Germanic tribes, not to mention Etruscans, Arameans, Scythians and many more Old World peoples who are not considered significant at all, and it would look ridiculous adding them to the game, but actually did much more than the Iroquois.

My point is that you all are so busy fighting the Euro-centrism that you don't notice how Native Tribes Centric you are.
There are really many great civilizations outside of Europe. Why adding more American tribes?

Another Mesoamerican? What would it be? Olmec?
That area is well represented, even better than Europe.

I would wrote a essay of wrath to you if you aren't made a point. To think of it, Civilopedia wrote that Iroquois' "deed" is more or less "survive longer than they should". Let's say America civ feel lonely as they will encounter only the Aztecs in Earth map, or fan simply want northern America Native

And back to the topic:
I would like to see Domenico Selvo.
I think he was the greatest dodge and somehow responsible to the glory of Venice.

According to my common knowledge, Enrico Dandolo is most famous (and hilarious leaderhead) of all doge.

 

[Scaramanga]

Aside from Rome's contributions to culture after the Roman Empire, every schoolboy knows that Rome is the capital of Italy and that should be upheld ( it is the capital for good reason too). It's just basic association of European country with European capital.

 

[Arachnofiend]

Aside from Rome's contributions to culture after the Roman Empire, every schoolboy knows that Rome is the capital of Italy and that should be upheld ( it is the capital for good reason too). It's just basic association of European country with European capital.

Every schoolboy also knows that Asia was nothing but a massive spice farm for white people for most of its history and that Africa was a continent of barbarians from which we could extract slave labor.

I wouldn't put much stock in what is taught in your average public school.

 

[Hruberen]

If common knowledge was the main reasons to add civilizations it would be 24 European civilizations + America + China + Egypt.






That's right.




So they had been one of the top tirbes. Woohoo!
Do you know how poor is that in European standards? Or in Middle Eastern standards? Or in South Asian standards?
I can make the same points for Harappan culture, or ancient Turkic tribes, or ancient Germanic tribes, not to mention Etruscans, Arameans, Scythians and many more Old World peoples who are not considered significant at all, and it would look ridiculous adding them to the game, but actually did much more than the Iroquois.

My point is that you all are so busy fighting the Euro-centrism that you don't notice how Native Tribes Centric you are.
There are really many great civilizations outside of Europe. Why adding more American tribes?


Another Mesoamerican? What would it be? Olmec?
That area is well represented, even better than Europe.



And back to the topic:
I would like to see Domenico Selvo.
I think he was the greatest dodge and somehow responsible to the glory of Venice.

You're forgetting a LOT of civilizations, i'm sure many have heard of Japan, indonesia, China, Brazil, and all the other civs in civilization. The point is that Venice is not known for anything other than a tourist destination, as it is never featured as a separate entity in history books, always a part of Italy.

This would make its inclusion in the game as a dark horse civilization, and there are much more civilizations that should take that spot, whose history can't be gleaned from a visit to the modern day country. You couldn't go to Hittica to learn of the Hittites, and going to some places in Africa is not only quite dangerous due to civil war, but there would not be many museums where you could learn of the countries past.

Long story short Venice is taking up a slot that would be better given to a different civilization.

 

[Gucumatz]

Hittica? You mean Hattusa?

 

[JFD]

The point is that Venice is not known for anything other than a tourist destination, as it is never featured as a separate entity in history books, always a part of Italy.

What history books have you been reading?

Venice is a bad choice as a civ-civ, but the game is starting to move away from that intent. Personally, I can't believe the two civs that I always wanted but never dared expect or even hope for (the other Sweden) are in Civ V.

 

[Buccaneer]

I am currently staying at the Peppermill Resort and it is a heavily Venetian/Tuscany themed place - architecture, colors, paintings as well as scenes from around the coasts are showing on the big screen tv in the rooms. Very pleasant and beautiful regions, rich in culture, arts and history and should've easily been one of the original 18.

 

[SnowKomodo]

I am currently staying at the Peppermill Resort and it is a heavily Venetian/Tuscany themed place - architecture, colors, paintings as well as scenes from around the coasts are showing on the big screen tv in the rooms. Very pleasant and beautiful regions, rich in culture, arts and history and should've easily been one of the original 18.

The Peppermill Resort is a really nice place = Venice deserves to be an original civ

 

[Novu]

The only thing that would make Venice interesting is if it had unique game play that no other CiV received. Talking about something that would be fairly extreme such as being limited as a one city civ but be given large bonuses to make up for it. A really tall super focused civ would be interesting to play as but if it just like every other civ getting UA, UU, and UB then I say no thanks to Venice.

 

[Monado]

After reading so many comments in the Italy/Venice/Papal States speculation thread over the last month or so, I would have thought there would be more support for Venice here.

Maybe it was just a lesser amount of noisier people in support.

 

[Dragonflow]

After reading so many comments in the Italy/Venice/Papal States speculation thread over the last month or so, I would have thought there would be more support for Venice here.

Maybe it was just a lesser amount of noisier people in support.

I believe the majority of people in the Italy/Venice/Papal States speculation thread were supporters of Italy as a civ, not Venice. Venice only started to get discussed intensively after it became clear that Italy wasn't going to make it.

 

[Buccaneer]

I have longed felt any of the Italian states (or Italy itself) should have been in the game previously and easily over most of the third-world nations.

 

[Menzies]

I have longed felt any of the Italian states (or Italy itself) should have been in the game previously and easily over most of the third-world nations.

Uh... there are by definition no third World Nations in the game as there aren't nations in the game, but rather Civilizations.

Go ahead though, enlighten us with the "third World nations" in the game.