Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by AtlantaMarty, Apr 18, 2017.
Let me very quickly specifically joss the following civs: Venice, Papal State, ancient Judah.
North Korea confirmed!!111!!
I think all of the African civs suggested would be awesome but this especially interested me because of SoI Makuria. This could potentially be a more conquest-oriented civ with early UHV goals—i don’t know, Nubia just seems really interesting for the balance of that region!
Yeah, I would probably mostly focus on early Nubia instead of its medieval variant, although maybe the third goal could represent it.
Actually I have been thinking about this a bit more and these are the options for African civs (excluding colonials):
- Songhai (focused on conquest/military/religion)
- Nigerians (Ife, Benin, later Sokoto)
- Shona (Great Zimbabwe, Mutapa, Rozwi)
- Swahili (focused on trade and navy)
The Zulu are another open question but I think their timeframe is just too narrow. But I also don't know how related they are to a larger Shona/Kalanga civilization.
I can't imagine any of those having an interesting UHV except maybe Swahili
There’s definitely potential for some interesting UHVs for all of them. Disclaimer I’m not the most knowledgeable about Africa:
Songhai would be all about creating a big, strong empire in West Africa and defeating the Moroccans in the Renaissance.
Nigeria could either start early during the Renaissance era or else as the Sokoto Caliphate in the Industrial. The latter would have a major economic focus (including slavery stuff in the early era). I could see a 3rd UHV in the Modern/Future era too given the nation’s potential today.
Nubians would be an Ancient civ that is supposed to conquer Egypt and later Ethiopia. Maybe some sort of goal with trade routes as well?
Shona would be a fast-paced culture game involving a lot of barb warfare. To directly reference Great Zimbabwe Castles could be a UB.
Swahili would definitely be a major trade and naval civ. You’d have to fight off the Portuguese as well, maybe sink X European ships UHV. Wiki says that they might’ve made landfall in Australia before Europeans as well, so that could be a settler spot/UHV/whatever too.
Nigeria UHV 3: Build Hollywood
Maybe a Pop goal in the Modern era? Along with this of course..
Right. Maybe throw in a religious goal too.
Honestly I am weakest on Nigeria right now as well, I would need to read up more on them.
Exactly. Easiest triple of goals I could come up with is: conquer Egypt early, amass gold / resources, keep Islam out of Africa. Alternatively have them build the Pyramids for a slightly alt-history goal, considering they had their own (though smaller) Pyramids.
Great Zimbabwe could also be some goal around their capital, for example X population or Y buildings. I also see them as a potential tech catch up civ, because they'd likely start with very primitive tech and would need to get to a certain point before making contact with Europe.
Yeah, I had the Australia thing in mind too. Beyond that, they would have resource trade and trade route based goals that would encourage them to make lots of contacts and open borders.
If/When the new African civs are going to be implemented, I think it is a good idea to split up the regions in Africa, especially with the larger map coming in the future. I suggest splitting the current Ethiopia region into Ethiopia and East Coast and splitting South Africa into Central Africa and South Africa.
I just remember hearing that Sokoto had an especially outstanding economy—supposedly had the potential to “modernize.” I think there was a major alternatehistory.com timeline about it. Their claiming the Caliphate has interesting ramifications too—maybe for a UP or something.
I really like this one for the sheer alt history feeling to it. Also for the interesting power balance in the area—I guess their UU would be the Medjay? Making Pyramids a UHV would probably mean Nubians would have to spawn at 4000 BC...
Like the Mayans in a few ways then, cool. Three goals could be X culture by Y date, the pop/buildings in capital, and tech goal by European contact/X date.
An emphasize on the region's gold and ivory resources should be paid attention to with the inclusion of the Shona civilization. Trade with Arabia would certainly make both civilizations more enjoyable.
Interesting. I'd like at least one goal that comes before the Sokoto Caliphate though.
Yeah, the Medjay is already in the game after all. But you're right about the spawn date. 3000 BC seems wrong, I'll need to see what I can make work.
Sounds good. I was also thinking about the Maya when talking about them, with also a sense of China in the way you constantly will have to ward off barbarians.
Right. They would also provide a good trading partner for the Swahili.
A Nubia start date of 2000 BC would sound about right.
When Nubia is added to the game, I suggest revisiting the Egyptian UHV. It has remained unchanged since the beginning of times and I think it needs to be made more interesting. In particular, the two culture goals could be merged into one.
We could add a population goal, as long as it's not making the entire UHV too hard.
Okay, so how about this:
1) Build an Islamic Great Mosque, a Catholic Cathedral and a Protestant Cathedral by 1600 AD
2) Have X slaves / more slaves than all other civilisations combined in 1850 AD
3) Have 3 Oil Corporations in your cities by 1950 AD
The first goal reflects religious diversity in Nigeria (it's almost 50/50 split between Islam and Christianity) and also encourages contact with Europe as well as expansion. The second goal is sort of an inverse of Congo, you have to not participate in the slave trade (true for many coastal Nigerian states). This also represents the large number of slaves the Sokoto Caliphate captured in its campaigns (maybe their UP can give them additional slaves on city conquest or more advantages for having slaves in Africa?). The last one is about modern Nigeria's oil based economy.
If we're talking about a 1600 AD deadline (or really anything before 1800 AD or so), then there should really only be a Islamic and Catholic requirement -- Nigerian contact with Europe was almost exclusively through Spain and Portugal, and Protestantism really didn't spread until much more recently.
Apart from that, looks good. I kinda wish there could be a population UHV since it is the most populous country in Africa, but requiring so many cities should generate high population as a side effect.
On the subject of African civs, Kanem Bornu would be an interesting choice due to its near 1200 year longevity and filling a portion of Africa often left unsettled. Goals could revolve around the size of their empire and spreading Islam, as well as maybe some city development stuff.
Some representation of the Nok culture would be cool, even if it was part of the Nigerian civ. Their early metal-working and theories of trade with Carthage are somewhat interesting.
Wow, I've never even heard of Kanem Bornu before and I considered myself a history buff. UHV number one: Avoid being seen
Unfortunately, both the map and the synopsis of their history doesn't seem to warrant a civilization in the game. They will be fighting over no resources and will have nothing to show for it.
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