While We Wait: Part 5

[Amon Savag]

It's not irreversible- look at what Harper's doing to Canada.

Give me a break. Harper's going to fail. It's pretty fundamental that when you GIVE people money, and tell them that they're entitled to said money, and then you try and take it away their mind goes "Wait! I thought I was entitled to this!" and a tug of war starts between those who want to keep what they earn, and those who want to take it from those who earn it. I'm sure it's already began, but I don't follow it. In these cases, those who are the recievers, not the contributors, get their way because there are always more parasites than hosts. And unfortunately the parasites have votes.

 

[~Darkening~]

Oh boy. I have a sudden reminder why I never drink tequila....And yes, woohoo.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Amon, I'm going to put that down to the fact that you don't see how popular Harper is in parts of Canada, and see the social institutions he's dismantling. Socialism is just as reversible as any other democratic institutions.

And your references to the poor as 'parasites' is massively unfair. There is a small visible group of people (the homeless with mental illness or drug addiction) who could fit a definition of 'societal parasite', and the much larger group of the working poor who benefit greatly from socialism.

 

[Kentharu]

in other news
POT GOT LEGALIZED IN MICHIGAN HORAAAYZ for medical use atleast... >.>

 

[Dachs]

And NK no longer is in Michigan. COINCIDENCE? I think not.

 

[Kentharu]

there are no coincidences!

other than coincidences...

 

[Dachs]

there are no coincidences!

other than coincidences...

"My friend, there is a fine line between coincidence and fate."

 

[Angst]

Arn [Which I think is the Knight Templar's series] was done by a Swede wasn't it... wasn't all that great of a film I am told the books are better.

Mentioned 'Knights Templar series' already.

The Swedes had Ingmar Bergman. They need no other artistic achievements.

...but seriously, look at the reign of, for one, Queen Kristina, who was way into patronage and even hired Descartes as her tutor, or look at the Gustavian Absolutism, which was also a not-half-bad enlightened despotism that featured some pretty impressive literary achievements. Too, Berzelius and Arrhenius were Swedish, and no chem or bio student forgets them.

Well, Danish movie history isn't really that great (I guess you could like Lars von Trier or Thomas Vinterberg, but their genre is a style which you have to like personally before liking them. I think they're great, but I guess I only feel that due to nationalism. You know, "Woo-hoo, they're Danish."), but queen Kristina and the Gustavs are all politicans, which has nothing to do with the literature. I'd like some examples on the literature of the absolutism, because honestly, I never heard about anything from that era, which might be a mistake from my side. Oh, and lastly, Descartes was French, so he actually has nothing to do with Swedish literature.

And I mentioned before that Swedish science is quite important, but that you don't have to learn a language to read scientific studies properly compared to aestethic writings. Simply because some of the aestethics are lost when translating a text, and that doesn't really matter in science.

Bottom line is therefore still: Learn Danish instead.

 

[North King]

@Dachs/Ken: I think I did vote for that in the end, with very deep reservations.

 

[Dachs]

but queen Kristina and the Gustavs are all politicans, which has nothing to do with the literature. I'd like some examples on the literature of the absolutism, because honestly, I never heard about anything from that era, which might be a mistake from my side. Oh, and lastly, Descartes was French, so he actually has nothing to do with Swedish literature.

Firstly, lolwut. Patronage means you turn out good stuff. Lizzie and Jim funded Will's plays, and so forth. The main reason that I'm not citing more examples of Swedish lit is because I don't have my History of Sweden on me and I don't want to look stuff up on Wikipedia because it makes me unhappy. Secondly, Gustav III was a playwright himself.

EDIT: Oops, I forgot the two I remember off the top of my head, August Strindberg (famous playwright) and Astrid Lindgren (yeah, the Pippi Longstocking woman).

Simply because some of the aestethics are lost when translating a text, and that doesn't really matter in science.

Try reading Vom Kriege in English (or, hell, Danish for that matter). I guarantee you that you will not develop quite the same understanding of military science that one would get reading it in the original German, or with an understanding of the linguistical nuance.

 

[Angst]

Firstly, lolwut. Patronage means you turn out good stuff. Lizzie and Jim funded Will's plays, and so forth. The main reason that I'm not citing more examples of Swedish lit is because I don't have my History of Sweden on me and I don't want to look stuff up on Wikipedia because it makes me unhappy. Secondly, Gustav III was a playwright himself.

Please do use wikipedia and swallow your bad consciousness from using such a terrible source. Then you'll probably convince me.

I did not know about that era. The reason is simply that, as we do have a Swedish educational course at some point in the Danish school system, we are never told about actual good Swedish literature. Norwegian literature, they have that guy who wrote Jante and they have Ludvig Holberg. We learn about a number of Germans (Should I really summarize them?) from their glorious periods of literature. But we have never been taught about any Swedish golden age of literature, and the examples I've seen are somewhat... thin.

Heck, even Iceland are hosting brilliant artists (In the modern era).

EDIT: Oops, I forgot the two I remember off the top of my head, August Strindberg (famous playwright) and Astrid Lindgren (yeah, the Pippi Longstocking woman).

Lindgren? Oh my. She does not reach Mr. Andersen's knees. And I already mentioned mr. Holberg, I think?

Try reading Vom Kriege in English (or, hell, Danish for that matter). I guarantee you that you will not develop quite the same understanding of military science that one would get reading it in the original German, or with an understanding of the linguistical nuance.

I presume this was a joke, and I laughed. I guess you got my point.

Are you really thinking it is more worth it to learn Swedish than Danish when you focus on literature?

EDIT: Where did Saxo come from? Icelander, or Dane?

 

[Dachs]

But we have never been taught about any Swedish golden age of literature, and the examples I've seen are somewhat... thin.

That is called nationalism. Give up on Scania already. Seriously, though, Americans don't generally learn about Strindberg (genius? not quite as good as Ibsen, but definitely quite good) either, or, hell, even most lit outside of America until they have finished high school. It is awfully ridiculous and I am exaggerating a bit, but still a shame. Learn this stuff on your own!

Lindgren? Oh my. She does not reach Mr. Andersen's knees. And I already mentioned mr. Holberg, I think?

If you count Holberg, Swedes can count Ibsen and you lose.

Are you really thinking it is more worth it to learn Swedish than Danish when you focus on literature?

I am playing devil's advocate which is what I do most of the time. (You may have noticed.) My own position is that Kierkegaard is probably the most useful Danish author, and that on the whole Scandinavian literature outside of the aforementioned Strindberg, Ibsen, and Kierkegaard isn't my favorite.

EDIT: Where did Saxo come from? Icelander, or Dane?

Saxo Grammaticus? He was a Dane, yeah.

 

[Angst]

That is called nationalism. Give up on Scania already.

SCANIA IS PART OF OUR NATION!!

Seriously, though, Americans don't generally learn about Strindberg (genius? not quite as good as Ibsen, but definitely quite good) either, or, hell, even most lit outside of America until they have finished high school. It is awfully ridiculous and I am exaggerating a bit, but still a shame. Learn this stuff on your own!

If you count Holberg, Swedes can count Ibsen and you lose.

Strike that, mistake from my side. Our teachers in Denmark usually tell us that Holberg was a Dane as he studied in Copenhagen and wrote to the 'Danish people'. I, personally, consider Norway a province until Sweden conquered her and nationalism slowly began to rise.

Just look back in my posts and you might notice I said before that Holberg is Norwegian, and that's my personal view on the subject.

I am playing devil's advocate which is what I do most of the time. (You may have noticed.) My own position is that Kierkegaard is probably the most useful Danish author, and that on the whole Scandinavian literature outside of the aforementioned Strindberg, Ibsen, and Kierkegaard isn't my favorite.

+respect for you, because that's what I do at any time I am able to debate...that is, if I understand what 'devil's advocate' means. It means that you are arguing against me just for the sake of arguing?

Saxo Grammaticus? He was a Dane, yeah.

Yeah him. He rocks as well. But he's for Danish nationalists more than anything else, and for historians that are desperate for sources.

... but, well, I don't stand corrected, as I still think Danish literature is more important, but I just gained more respect for Sweden as a cultural nation.

 

[das]

+respect for you, because that's what I do at any time I am able to debate...that is, if I understand what 'devil's advocate' means. It means that you are arguing against me just for the sake of arguing?

It means he is defending the less popular opinion; an exercise in finding arguments when such might be expected to be relatively sparse.

And yes, Sweden has been surprisingly uncreative as far as literature goes. Their science, technology, warfare and irresponsible political intrigue are more than on the level, though.

 

[Dachs]

SCANIA IS PART OF OUR NATION!!

And Finland is part of Sweden, and Prussia is part of Germany, and the Donets and Crimea are part of Russia, and Anatolia and Thraikia are part of Greece, and all of southern Europe is part of Serbia. @ revanchism.

+respect for you, because that's what I do at any time I am able to debate...that is, if I understand what 'devil's advocate' means. It means that you are arguing against me just for the sake of arguing?

Partially. I'm also trying to bring out extra knowledge (as Emil Faber would say, "Knowledge is Good" ) and perhaps an appreciation for the other side of the coin. I have an Iranologist on another board to thank for that.

... but, well, I don't stand corrected, as I still think Danish literature is more important, but I just gained more respect for Sweden as a cultural nation.

That's the important part.

EDIT: Epic lulz for das. Good way to put it.

 

[Symphony D.]

you made it seem as if Bush was running for a third term, which is faulty, especially on this particular premise.

Note that "in there now" in my remark? Yeah. Literacy. Doubleplusgood.

 

[Azale]

I am sad that Cornyn is still one of my state senators. Talk about Bushbot 2.0

In other political news, Minnesota

 

[Luckymoose]

The only thing Obama proves is that Oprah is the most powerful person on the planet, so powerful in fact that her name is in the spellchecker while Obama's is not.

 

[Kentharu]

lol Oprah
nice one lucky

 

[Shadowbound]

Just word of his election made stocks drop.

Actually, it made the stocks rise more than Ronald Reagan's election did.