While We Wait: Writer's Block & Other Lame Excuses

[Gem Hound]

I like my nations to have the ideology of the Chinese Empire. I like the idea that all people living in my nations (in Ancient times) to be the civilized people who live Under the rule of the Heaven, the divine Emperor and that all those who do not are uncivilized Barbarians who should not have relations as equal with my nations. Does this make people angry? Maybe. It made the Mongols angry in RL, and they took over Beijing and forced the Ming to build the Great Wall in order to porotect themselves. It also made many Westerners angry. But I like that my nations have this ideology and have fun with this.

Thing is though, you play it over and over and over again. Like a song on repeat, after a while, it doesn't sound good any longer.

 

[christos200]

You might be right. I was thinking, anway, that in the next Ancient NES I will play a trading republic.

 

[Symphony D.]

1. Eh.

A petty dismissal for what is fundamentally the biggest issue at hand. Crezth is fond of repeating things akin to "The only thing that's different is the user bases," which is rather like saying the only difference between the Russian government and the American one are the opinions and beliefs of the people running them and therefore Russia and America should unite immediately without hesitation! Well, yes, that is why they are so different. One can't abstract the people out of the discussion.

2. I think that this exists of a problem independently of the merger. It's also something we can't really change. If we maybe had more mods in our subforum(s), then we could have faster response times to requests to remove player X.

With all due respect, I feel this is a bit naive. A GM should not particularly have to explain the geopolitics and situational context of an event that resulted in a particular nation being destroyed in war, or a coup occurring, or whatever, to a Mod/Admin who really probably does not care why a given player is the Roman Nazis in 1822 or what have you, and why this is "ruining the game."

Incidentally, these measures can be used to remove players regardless through more opaque means or to simply stymie a player. If a GM has a player couped for trying to turn the Romanian Monarchy into Roman Nazis in 1822, is he simply maintaining the integrity of his game and hewing to realism, or is he oppressing and discriminating against the player in question? It remains unclear.

There are already many different modes of thought as to what should make actions "acceptable" by NESers, ranging from "here are outside sources that validate what I say," to "I wrote a story that said it was so and you can't ignore that," to "because I said so." Adding more of the latter end of the spectrum is not something that I, personally, want to see. And it seems to be roughly a hallmark of IOT: it's a sandbox, do what you want. The difference is less in the action (NESers do stupid, insane, irrational, nonsensical things all the time), but in the spirit behind the action: advancing one's position in the narrative, vs. "winning the game." NES is fundamentally not a serious competitive activity, no matter how much certain people want to paint it as one. There is usually little, if any, "game" to be "won."

3. Actually, unless I am misinformed, I am fairly sure that the IOT Rules are outdated and we use whatever you guys have, due to a clause that says something like "This covers NES and all other games." Regardless, rules-lawyering and running to the Mods for bad reasons has only been employed by very few members of the forums and they have had soiled their reputations from it nor did they get very far with Bird. And they have stopped as of late as well. I am not naming name but this is not an issue.

It was an issue rather recently in this subforum's history due to the actions of an IOTer, so you'll forgive me my misgivings.

4. Maybe you're right, but I really think that there are games in IOT that NESers would really enjoy and vice-versa that one might miss due to people being reluctant to intermix. A merger would remove that artificial barrier.

I do not believe anyone has seriously abstained from participating in one or the other out of fear. I would credit all of it to ignorance or different standards, although I would not guess at the ratio. I, for example, have no interest in the IOT space game because it doesn't meet my expectations, not because I don't want to associate with IOT.

6. You're right, but I don't think it is streamlining for the sake of streamlining.

I have yet to be persuaded otherwise when the main argument in favor seems to be "NES and IOT are totally the same thing," when they aren't—being merely concerned with the same material or tropes. Movies aren't music videos; Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid aren't movies, etc.

 

[NinjaCow64]

A petty dismissal for what is fundamentally the biggest issue at hand. Crezth is fond of repeating things akin to "The only thing that's different is the user bases," which is rather like saying the only difference between the Russian government and the American one are the opinions and beliefs of the people running them. Well, yes. That is why they are so different. One can't abstract the people out of the discussion.

The reason dismissed it was because I think this is an issue I don't think I can convince you on. But I think that there are differences between the two sub-forums, yes, but they are not as many or as significant as you think.

With all due respect, I feel this is a bit naive. A GM should not particularly have to explain the geopolitics and situational context of an event that resulted in a particular nation being destroyed in war, or a coup occurring, or whatever, to a Mod/Admin who really probably does not care why a given player is the Roman Nazis in 1822 or what have you, and why this is "ruining the game."

Incidentally, these measures can be used to remove players regardless through more opaque means or to simply stymie a player. If a GM has a player couped for trying to turn the Romanian Monarchy into Roman Nazis in 1822, is he simply maintaining the integrity of his game and hewing to realism, or is he oppressing and discriminating against the player in question? It remains unclear.

There are already many different modes of thought as to what should make actions "acceptable" by NESers, ranging from "here are outside sources that validate what I say," to "I wrote a story that said it was so and you can't ignore that," to "because I said so." Adding more of the latter end of the spectrum is not something that I, personally, want to see. And it seems to be roughly a hallmark of IOT: it's a sandbox, do what you want. The difference is less in the action (NESers do stupid, insane, irrational, nonsensical things all the time), but in the spirit behind the action: advancing one's position in the narrative, vs. "winning the game." NES is fundamentally not a serious competitive activity, no matter how much certain people want to paint it as one. There is usually little, if any, "game" to be "won."

While that may be true, there isn't much we can do about it as CFC is not a democracy and the administration seems that it has made it's mind up on this issue. And I trust in the majority of IOTers to be reasonable in this regard.

It was an issue rather recently in this subforum's history due to the actions of an IOTer, so you'll forgive me my misgivings.

You are forgiven.

I do not believe anyone has seriously abstained from participating in one or the other out of fear. I would credit all of it to ignorance or different standards, although I would not guess at the ratio. I, for example, have no interest in the IOT space game because it doesn't meet my expectations, not because I don't want to associate with IOT.

I understand and I have imagined similar things as well.

I have yet to be persuaded otherwise when the main argument in favor seems to be "NES and IOT are totally the same thing," when they aren't—being merely concerned with the same material or tropes. Movies aren't music videos; Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid aren't movies, etc.

Honestly I don't agree with you and I doubt I will be able to convince you with words. Maybe I will convince you with actions.

 

[Tee Kay]

The reason dismissed it was because I think this is an issue I don't think I can convince you on. But I think that there are differences between the two sub-forums, yes, but they are not as many or as significant as you think.

The difference is less actual and more perceived difference, but as you know perception often counts far more than facts. Exhibit 1: last Saturday's election.

Thus can we really say that it's not significant?

 

[Arrow Gamer]

For the record, as someone who goes on both chats, the cultures are both strikingly similar but very separate.

In all honesty, I am firmly against a merger. IOTs are not NESes, no matter what you may say. The IOTers are very concerned about dying, as I said above, but I don't truly think they will.

 

[Masada]

Both of you should know that what you are doing right now is clearly against forum rules. Do you need a moderator to tell you so or are you going to relax?

I don't see any moderator tags?

I did not call all of them. Only a few ones (in fact only 3 persons) who make the merge of forums look like an Nazi invasion. In fact, I have no problem with most NESers, like terrance or arrow or Crezth and ChiefDesigner. Never said that all NESers are bigots.

Man up troll.

 

[christos200]

Masada, I thought that you knew english. I am disappointed to see that you do not know how to speak. Why do you not learn english and man up first, troll?

 

[Masada]

Masada, I thought that you knew english [sic]. I am disappointed to see that you do not know how to speak [sic]. Why do you not learn english and man up first, troll?

I'm sorry what did you say?

 

[christos200]

I do not reply to ******.

 

[JohannaK]

~ I can be a bigot if you want me to be ~

Would you be a bigot for me?

I like my nations to have the ideology of the Chinese Empire. I like the idea that all people living in my nations (in Ancient times) to be the civilized people who live Under the rule of the Heaven, the divine Emperor and that all those who do not are uncivilized Barbarians who should not have relations as equal with my nations. Does this make people angry? Maybe. It made the Mongols angry in RL, and they took over Beijing and forced the Ming to build the Great Wall in order to porotect themselves. It also made many Westerners angry. But I like that my nations have this ideology and have fun with this.

One day you should actually read a book about China.

 

[christos200]

Or you could actually read a book on China.

 

[Masada]

"I not cause drama guys" - christos200

 

[Tee Kay]

Or you could actually read a book on China.

You do not speak to my brother like that.

Seriously though, when 30+ very smart people from a variety of different backgrounds all agree that you're wrong/annoying, maybe the problem's not with them?

 

[JohannaK]

I will have you know, christos, that I am in fact reading a book on China which was recommended to me by someone whose studies are about the Far East.

You do not speak to my brother like that.

 

[Crezth]

You do not speak to my brother like that.

Seriously though, when 30+ very smart people from a variety of different backgrounds all agree that you're wrong/annoying, maybe the problem's not with them?

The problem is with democracy, yo.

 

[Angst]

Would you be a bigot for me?

Anytime.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

christos, just to be clear- when you say something along the lines of 'NESers are bigots' or 'NESers are jerks', that usually gets interpreted as 'All NESers are X' rather than 'Some NESers are X'. That might be one of the reasons that you are triggering hostile reactions in other people.

 

[Angst]

Logic language translates "X is Y" as "any object with the property X has the property Y" therefore it actually is offensive as is.

I don't think you have anything against me personally, but the statement in isolation would be kind of rude as I knew nothing else about you or its context.

 

[christos200]

Ok. I will say names: Luckymoose is a bigot. Now that I clarify this, is anyone okay? This is the guy I am talking about, not all NESers.

Also, to clarify something else. Masada is an idiot. Good? I am more sympathetic now?