Why Edward Snowden is not a Whistle-Blower

[warpus]

Well broadly speaking they protect people when they expose their employer for doing something that is against the law. But in this case, Snowden is exposing the law itself, so there is no protection...

From my understanding the whistleblower protection act, or whatever it is, doesn't really protect you that well after you've signed a non disclosure agreement for example.

I have also read of anti-whistleblower laws being signed, such as this one.

It's not easy being a whistleblower. The existing law seems to only protect you in very specific circumstances.. and even then it seems like you'll have problems if you whistleblow powerful people.

 

[peter grimes]

The fact that he is not a legally protected whistleblower says more about the inadequacy of legal protections for whistleblowers than it does about Snowden.

BINGO!

I was just corrected in another thread about this guy for improperly using the word treason, as it has a specific definition. How is what Mobby is saying here any different?

I agree: the OP is useful, as it shows us exactly which rules need to be changed - retroactively - to protect people of good conscience who try to expose bad policies.

If Obama could support retroactive immunity for the telecom companies in the WarrantLESS Wiretapping Conspiracy, surely Snowden deserves the same treatment!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

He's still a patriot.

 

[peter grimes]

He's still a patriot.

Watering the tree of Liberty with the blood of Tyrants.

 

[Patroklos]

Anyone who tries to expose US government after Bradley Mannings and Jullian Assange saga would indeed be brave. What Snowden exposed indeed is very much relevant not only for US citizens but internet users all over the world.

It's not even close to the same thing. In Snowden's case he had knowledge of a specific thing he found morally questionable and only exposed that. In Bradely's case he was just generally discontent and realized random information he knew nothing about.

You have to know what you are releasing to be a whistle blower regardless of whether others agree that you should have done it.

 

[JollyRoger]

The troops are not whistleblowers, therefore not heroes. The first responders on 9/11 were not whistlebloweres, therefore not heroes.

Conflationary devices can be dangerous to those that try to use them.

 

[Berzerker]

yes we scan

 

[JollyRoger]

Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear?

 

[GhostWriter16]

he need not be a legally covered whistle blower to be a hero

This.

Come on guys he totally risked a program that stopped 12 attacks! I mean 50 attacks! Maybe by the next time they try to sell it it will grow to 100+ attacks prevented.

I dont really care if he isnt a legal whistleblower, the citizens deserve to know when their rights are being trampled.

This.

The fact that he is not a legally protected whistleblower says more about the inadequacy of legal protections for whistleblowers than it does about Snowden.

This.

I was just corrected in another thread about this guy for improperly using the word treason, as it has a specific definition. How is what Mobby is saying here any different?

True...

At least, depending on what words you're using.

The constitution says what Snowden did ain't treason. To my knowledge there's no similar constitutional provision about whistle-blowers.

But I don't really care what you call Snowden as long as "Hero" is included.

I don't think there's anything wrong with calling what he did treasonous, if you were simply making a moral judgement based on personal ethical standards.

I mean, other than the fact that it wasn't treasonous in the slightest, of course But that's because your personal ethical standards are whacky enough to call what he did treasonous.

P.S. it's nice to see MobBoss defending the Obama administration.

No, its really not. Partisan Republicans may be stupid, but at least they're useful when a Democrat is in power and he does something seriously wrong, like the whole NSA thing.

The worst people in the Republican Party are the ones who will only agree with Democrats when they're waging war or enacting a police state. They may be more consistent than the Sean Hannitys of the world, but they're also more dangerous.

He's still a patriot.

Watering the tree of Liberty with the blood of Tyrants.

Thomas Jefferson was correct about this, and he'd be doing it now, were he still alive. But Snowden didn't do that.

 

[MobBoss]

Usual suspects, expected answers.

Ah well.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Pretty much everyone disagrees with you here, Mobby.

Its not just me in this particular instance.

 

[Lord of Elves]

Ed Snowden needs to stop being deified for calling out the feds. The feds need to stop doing things that people feel the need to call out. Everyone sit down, calm down, and stop trying to have some kind of sanctimonious, moralizing crusade.

 

[bhsup]

Pretty much everyone disagrees with you here, Mobby.

Not everyone. The man has potentially crossed the line, imho. This post below was also, btw, the one which I was called out on (and correctly so) for improperly using the word treason. Betrayer, traitor, etc I guess, but not treason with its specific definition.

I admit I haven't been following this case very closely at all and am unaware exactly what he's spilled the beans about. I thought it was mostly about monitoring Americans illegally. In that particular case I was quite willing and ready to support his actions. But yes, if he is extending his revelations to include giving foreign powers information about our espionage in those countries, then yes that's spying for another country as far as I'm concerned, which for an American citizen is indeed treasonous.

There is a damned good reason Pollard is rotting in a jail cell. He betrayed his country and committed treason by spying for Israel. If this man is doing the same for any country, then he deserves a cell right next to Pollard.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Ed Snowden needs to stop being deified for calling out the feds. The feds need to stop doing things that people feel the need to call out. Everyone sit down, calm down, and stop trying to have some kind of sanctimonious, moralizing crusade.

I'm not deifying him. I pretty much agree with Judge Andrew Napolitano (Surprise, surprise) in what he said about Snowden here:

http://lewrockwell.com/napolitano/napolitano107.html

Not everyone. The man has potentially crossed the line, imho. This post below was also, btw, the one which I was called out on (and correctly so) for improperly using the word treason. Betrayer, traitor, etc I guess, but not treason with its specific definition.

I don't see how its treason to reveal US espionage unless those people are our "Enemies" which I think could only be defined as such by a congressional declaration of war, as far a I understand it.

I'm not sure what information he revealed in that regard, so I'm not totally denying he could have crossed the line. It would depend on what he revealed in that regard.

That said, anything he revealed about the NSA is DEFINITELY justified. Full stop, period.

Your stance seems more moderate than Mobboss', as far as I understand it. Mobboss is already calling him a traitor, while you sound more like you're reserving judgment, much like Rand Paul did.

 

[kramerfan86]

I just hope he finds a country that wont deport him back to us. As far as I am concerned as an american citizen he did me a favor.

 

[MobBoss]

I just hope he finds a country that wont deport him back to us. As far as I am concerned as an american citizen he did me a favor.

How? Do you really think they were spying on you?

 

[kramerfan86]

How? Do you really think they were spying on you?

Doesnt really matter to me whether they were spying on me personally. My concern for rights being trampled on isnt exclusive to whether Im personally getting effected at the moment. But who knows, considering how hush hush they tried to keep this, without a Snowden type person you and I wouldnt really ever know if they did cross the line further than they already have. PRISM can just as easily hit Americans as it can foreigners.

oh but I forgot, its overseen by a secret court (nothing more comforting than a secret court). I mean if the internet is to be believed its only vetoed surveillance requests like 4 or 5 times out of the thousands of times asked, so its definitely hasnt become a near rubber stamp institution.

 

[MobBoss]

You're just being paranoid now.

So yours nor any other americans rights have been trampled. That's apparently a fact of this issue.

All the rest is just fomenting fear.

 

[kramerfan86]

See I dont get people, everyone thinks the government is crooked and corrupt but when it comes to security issues suddenly everyone wants to trust the <20% approval rate organization to do everything by the book and clean. Why would I trust them on this when I dont trust the liars on anything else?

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Usual suspects, expected answers.

Ah well.

Pretty much everyone disagrees with you here, Mobby.

Its not just me in this particular instance.

With MobBoss finally giving in to the dark side of semantic arguments, retreating into a fortress of bias, GhostWriter wields the iconic prophet avatar in front of an army of GhostWriter's imagined allies.

MobBoss' argumentative grip on this thread is not as solid as he may imagine, but the combination of death and honor energies collecting in his avatar create a force far more powerful than GhostWriter can imagine. Tribalist impulses that predate the bible, nationalist creeds in laminates and peoples. An engine of death, the combine of corps.

Ghostwriter, young; yet younger, no more.
He's brave in his heart, and part in his head.
He'd love to be praised, but I raise him instead
a fence for the fences
for display in this thread?
What would you consider, the truth
-nearest so
if some man came in, from the den of the snow?
Is he fighting for right?
Is he hiding a knife?
Your reply, in a poem, else forfeit this fight?

Who will stand victorious in this eternal struggle between A and B? Find out next time, on CFC Z!