Why Edward Snowden is not a Whistle-Blower

[Lord Baal]

I recently tracked a person down just by typing their mobile phone number into Google. Gave me their name, FaceBook address and a photo of their face. That was the very first result too, by the way; who knows how much more I would have found if I'd dug deeper.

With that said, I find the idea of idiots putting their personal information online far less disturbing than the idea that the government can store my personal information. The only person on this website who knows my real name is ainwood, and that was so long ago he's probably forgotten it. Actually, I may have told Quackers as well, shortly after I joined. The only other person on the site who knew it is the guy who turned me on to this site to begin with, and he stopped posting years ago. I am therefore not even slightly concerned about any of you chaps having access to any of my details.

The government, on the other hand, can track the various details I give on my computer, my work computer, my iPad, my phone calls and texts and even my conversations on my work phone. I find the idea of them being able to do that in spite of the fact that I am not under investigation, or even suspicion, for any offence extremely disturbing.

Before anyone says "that's not what this program is doing!" bear in mind that I am speaking hypothetically; I neither know nor particularly care about this program, being, as I am, Australian. I also don't make phone calls to you damn Yankees and Poms.

 

[MobBoss]

You already give the government tons of information about yourself via your SSN and tax information each year.

 

[NewEnd]

What you say here is simply not consistent with what i'm reading n the media in regards to all of this, sorry.

Are you reading your American media, perhaps?
read, read: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-5...-flap-extends-to-contents-of-u.s-phone-calls/

Have you tried British yet?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/04/telephone-calls-recorded-fbi-boston

And in looking at the FBI/NSA warrant to FISA, its not 'broad' at all, but rather specific in what it's asking for.

Are you confuse FISA warrants with the broad collection of everything? The warrants only have to deal with retroactively peeking into what has been vacuumed and stored on servers. Every call. They are collecting everything, they just can't look without FISA warrant.

So now your saying the media is in cahoots with the government to downplay this thing. Its a conspiracy now isn't it?

I believe American media's main talking point this week, is, verbatum, "Snowden needs to come back to America and face the music" Like "spring in the easter bunny steps, yes?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dguiAWrUGMM

Ah, what is your source that the US has 'tons of missiles and planes in Jordan'? This I would really like to see.

It was the news. Don't you read this?
Will voice of America be too biased of source.
http://www.voanews.com/content/us-maintains-presence-in-jordan/1686457.html

Yup, quite the conspiracy.

As Edward Snowden say, "the truth is coming."

Snowden have hundreds more documents to come. Enjoy!

The government, on the other hand, can track the various details I give on my computer, my work computer, my iPad, my phone calls and texts and even my conversations on my work phone. I find the idea of them being able to do that in spite of the fact that I am not under investigation, or even suspicion, for any offence extremely disturbing.

Before anyone says "that's not what this program is doing!" bear in mind that I am speaking hypothetically; I neither know nor particularly care about this program, being, as I am, Australian. I also don't make phone calls to you damn Yankees and Poms.

Corporations and people on gaming forums can not label you terrorist and throw you in jail or limit your travel options or suspend passports... government can.
Also, because you are not US citizen, it is worse. NSA can spy on non-US citizens and record and listen to them all they want. As all intelligence agents try to say to justify: "it may not be comfortable, but every nation engages in espionage!" Yes, and boundless informant means all people of world are suspect in American eyes... ..and have no rights. Germans unhappy about this:
http://www.spiegel.de/international...ograms-threaten-german-security-a-907577.html
read, read in English for all you Americans.

Overzealous data collectors in the US and Great Britain have no right to investigate German citizens. The German government must protect people from unauthorized access by foreign intelligence agencies, and it must act now. This is a matter of national security.

The totalitarianism of the security mindset protects itself with a sentence: If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. But firstly, that contains a presumption: We have not asked the NSA and GCHQ to "protect" us. And secondly, the sentence is a stupid one: Because we all have something to hide, whether it pertains to our private lives or to our business secrets.

Germans know what Stasi and Gestapo is. Time Americans learn too, I hope.

 

[Perfection]

You already give the government tons of information about yourself via your SSN and tax information each year.

Yes, but this is intruding on my most private details without any cause or reason.

 

[MobBoss]

It was the news. Don't you read this?
Will voice of America be too biased of source.
http://www.voanews.com/content/us-maintains-presence-in-jordan/1686457.html

I'm not sure i'd call a detachment of F16s and a few Patriot batteries as 'tons of missiles and planes'...but yeah, that's the first I've heard of it.

 

[Perfection]

a single F16 weighs over 9 tons.

 

[MobBoss]

a single F16 weighs over 9 tons.

I interpreted 'tons' equating to numbers....not their literal weight.

 

[kramerfan86]

Hopefully the NSA protects all the data they are collecting better than they manage to protect their own documents.

 

[Perfection]

I interpreted 'tons' equating to numbers....not their literal weight.

since when have you been metaphorical?

 

[Lord Baal]

You already give the government tons of information about yourself via your SSN and tax information each year.

Bolded the most important part of your post. I give the government information which it has both a need and a right to know about me. I do this so that it can fulfil my needs in return, as a good government should.

I haven't given my government the right to snoop on the various soft-core pornographic images several women I know send to my e-mail inbox on a pretty regular basis, or listen to me ordering a pizza or bad-mouthing my boss over the phone.

 

[MobBoss]

I haven't given my government the right to snoop on the various soft-core pornographic images several women I know send to my e-mail inbox on a pretty regular basis, or listen to me ordering a pizza or bad-mouthing my boss over the phone.

Yeah, cause that's the kind of stuff they are looking for.

Again, that's simply not what is occurring. At all. And it's pretty disingenuous to continue to allege that in light of the actual facts of the matter.

 

[Perfection]

I dunno Mobby, if Snowden taught us anything, it's not to trust disgruntled NSA contractor employees.

What would you do if you could listen to anything?

 

[Lord Baal]

Yeah, cause that's the kind of stuff they are looking for.

Again, that's simply not what is occurring. At all. And it's pretty disingenuous to continue to allege that in light of the actual facts of the matter.

Yeah, note that part up above where I said I was speaking hypothetically, as, not being American, I really don't care about the facts behind this case at all? I put it there for a reason, Mobby. So that people could argue with the point I was making in general, rather than the specifics of this case, in which I have merely a passing interest. If you're only interested in the particulars of this case and not the more general subject I was writing about, then why respond to me?

The mere fact that the government is looking is what disturbs me. That they are looking specifically for evidence that I'm a terrorist - which hasn't been true in years - rather than the information that actually accumulates in my inbox - spam, the aforementioned soft-core pornography, information on chess tournaments and the occasional message from my university or employer - is of no particular concern to me. The government should not be able to eavesdrop on my personal - or professional, for that matter - correspondence without a warrant. Period.

 

[Lord Baal]

I dunno Mobby, if Snowden taught us anything, it's not to trust disgruntled NSA contractor employees.

What would you do if you could listen to anything?

I'd eavesdrop on ultrasounds to hear masturbating fetuses.

 

[Agent327]

Also, because you are not US citizen, it is worse. NSA can spy on non-US citizens and record and listen to them all they want.

Actually, it seems they can do that inside the US just as well. And as if it's not a delicate legal matter, this is actually being outsourced to private firms.

Yet all the focus remains on Mr Snowden for bringing this to public attention. That may be in the government's interest, but it's not in the public interest.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The mere fact that the government is looking is what disturbs me. That they are looking specifically for evidence that I'm a terrorist - which hasn't been true in years - rather than the information that actually accumulates in my inbox - spam, the aforementioned soft-core pornography, information on chess tournaments and the occasional message from my university or employer - is of no particular concern to me. The government should not be able to eavesdrop on my personal - or professional, for that matter - correspondence without a warrant. Period.

Hasn't been true in years?

If the NSA didn't already have a file on you before, they certainly do now from your posts in this forum. That also goes for any other non-American who posts his comments in this forum.

And those of us who are Americans now have files created by GCHQ and other foreign governments, which have been turned over to the NSA so they won't violate their mandate to spy directly on Americans.

 

[JollyRoger]

I interpreted 'tons' equating to numbers....not their literal weight.

Yet you started this thread based on a narrow legal definition rather than a more common sense understanding of a term.

 

[peter grimes]

Yeah, cause that's the kind of stuff they are looking for.

Again, that's simply not what is occurring. At all. And it's pretty disingenuous to continue to allege that in light of the actual facts of the matter.

Facts which are in dispute.

On any other forum it would be assumed you're a sock puppet.

I get that you're acting the part of the counterweight, of devil's advocate. But can't you agree that it's not cool for the US intelligence services to be used like this?

These programs are needlessly invasive of people's privacy, and miss the intended targets almost entirely. If you look at what we've found out, these programs are *perfectly* suited for monitoring a civilian population.

Purging of data every 5 years?? Really? And yet this didn't stop the Boston Bumblers, which some people called the worst terrorist attack since 9/11. Didn't stop that moron who tried to light some fireworks off in his suv parked just off Times Square, either.

Why does this program, which you seem to defend, fail at its purported mission and appear designed for a different mission entirely?

 

[GhostWriter16]

You already give the government tons of information about yourself via your SSN and tax information each year.

Some of us want to abolish SS and Federal taxation as we know it.

I'm one of them...

 

[JollyRoger]

Not surprising given the imminent transition from a taker to a taxpayer.